Muslims are starting to become annoying here

[KichigaiNeko]

It is a very sad thing apophenia. Unfortunately these fundie muslims claim to have the voice of ALL MUSLIMS in their demands to undermine the laws of the host countries.

What is lacking is the moderate muslims feeling comfortable to speak out but thanks to the zealot fundies they are unable to.

This is my current understanding of the issue.

[Aractus]

Nazi Germany ceased to exist almoust 70 years ago! The influence of fascism in German politics as a dominant factor ceased almoust 70 years ago! Germany is a republic with a democraticly elected goverment and abides to the standerds of international law!

Yep. Now if only we could convince USA to abide by international law...

The entire arab world is bogged up in a state of dictatorial tyranny, run or influenced by islamist halfwits.

FIXED that for you!

[Dawud]

Don't worry - its all been a mistake!

Easily done - the media picks unrepresentative nobodies just like above and puts them forward as representative.

The mellow reality that Muslims aren't really extremely different or even less human than the next person just isn't getting across.

The mellow existence of my own and the millions of other Muslims who disagree with such comments just isn't getting accross.

I like so many others want to live a good peaceful life and the vast majority if my values are identical with my fellow Chrisrian, Atheist and what ever else...

This mellow reality just isn't getting accross - Jews, Muslims, atheists, Christians have centuries of peaceful co-existence to look back on (using phenomenal events like the crucades to imply that Christians are genocidal would be wrong because for the cast majority if the time there have been peaceful pluralist societies). A pluralist society is new to the Weat but I know that if anywhere can do it - surely it can be done in Britain and America!

To say that Muslims blame rape victims just wouldn't be a constructive statement based on this - maybe some do but I doubt any more than the next Atheist or Christian.

We're all human and we've been getting on for years - I know that in my city of Glasgow Muslims and non-Muslims have been flourishing together for years in the effort of maintaining a just and peaceful society. Surely this is not just a Glaswegian phenomena? Surely it's not that peaceful co-existence of Muslims and non-Muslims in the west only works in Scotland (mind you Scotland is pretty amazing!)



I wish we could just chill and find out more about our fellow human instead if taking dodgy representatives and pretending it explains the whole.

Just cos an Atheist like Mao might kill countless innocents in the name if creating a religion free society - it doesn't mean that Atheists are murderers. I know this because I used to be an atheist and also maybe most of my friends are atheist - they are not murderers and Im sure they never will be.

Lets stop generalising and saying because you are a X then you will be Y about massive groups of people. Humans are far more complex than that and the generalising and demonisation of one massive group of people as 'the enemy' or incompatible with society is the route of genocide and other horrors.

Islam works in Glasgow thank God -why can't it work where you are - because of the Muslims or because of the lack if understanding?

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Apologies for the hundreds of typos!

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Bigoted people like to pretend that 'their people' are all good and the 'others' are just -all- a problem

[Aractus]

Dawud, I'm guessing you don't live in the Middle East?

[Dawud]

Ha!

I can't believe it.

I put a lovely post - without profanity or insult and now it's gone...

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Oh - there it is!

Yes Aractus - I live in Glasgow and it's great!

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So basically: it's not Muslims - it's those against democracy regardless of colour or creed be they Atheist or Buddhist or whatever

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* that was for TGAC:

Basically he's not so much against Muslims as against anti-democracy activists.

Arab spring = reclaiming of Arab lands from dictators backed by British and other western powers. Nice one! TGAC: are you pleasd that the Arabs are now beginning to chose their own government or would you prefer they were dictated to by an atheist state?

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Scary times if you think Muslims are inherently evil!

[Something completely different]

[Angrboda]

I don't know, Germans. Sounds pretty racist to me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims aren't a problem. IRA members who planted bombs were equally a problem. Shipping the Irish to some remote location was not a solution.

In World War II, many of my people were shipped across country, and put in internment camps, without recourse to law or their rights as U.S. citizens. Simply because non-Japanese were afraid of them and hated them.

You're suggesting something that is little different. What difference is there? An internment camp, or their native country. You just want to get rid of people you don't like.

You're conflating the problems of nations and international politics with those of individuals and immigration.

You don't like the views of Muslims and some Muslim immigrants, so instead of using the tools of politics, law, and social discourse, which are the accepted tools of any pluralistic society, you want to use immigration policy to enforce your political views. That's a cheap, effective solution, but it also makes you as unpluralistic and anti-democratic as they are. Just because evil doesn't wear a turban doesn't make it any less evil.

Here in America, there is hatred and resentment of Mexicans. So people want to close the borders and send any undocumenteds back to Mexico. It's the same deal. People want to deal with their unease with accommodating people who are different than they are by using immigration policy and inflammatory racist rhetoric.

Playing the race card is not wrong if racism is being used to support indefensible policies. And playing the "you're just playing the race card" card has become a convenient way for racists to stifle criticism of their racism. Fuck you.

A report by General DeWitt and Colonel Bendetsen depicting racist bias against Japanese Americans was circulated and then hastily redacted in 1943–1944. The report stated flatly that, because of their race, it was impossible to determine the loyalty of Japanese Americans, thus necessitating internment. The original version was so offensive – even in the atmosphere of the wartime 1940s – that Bendetsen ordered all copies to be destroyed.

[jots]

I don't know, Germans. Sounds pretty racist to me.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims aren't a problem. IRA members who plant bombs are equally a problem. But you don't recommend shipping the Irish back home.

You're conflating the problems of nations and international politics with those of individuals and immigration.

You don't like the views of Muslims and some Muslim immigrants, so instead of using the tools of politics, law, and social discourse, which are the accepted tools of any pluralistic society, you want to use immigration policy to enforce your political views. That's a cheap, effective solution, but it also makes you as unpluralistic and anti-democratic as they are. Just because evil doesn't wear a turban doesn't make it any less evil.

Here in America, there is hatred and resentment of Mexicans. So people want to close the borders and send any undocumenteds back to Mexico. It's the same deal. People want to deal with their unease with accommodating people who are different than they are by using immigration policy and inflammatory racist rhetoric.

Playing the race card is not wrong if racism is being used to support indefensible policies. And playing the "you're just playing the race card" card has become a convenient way for racists to stifle criticism of their racism. Fuck you.

This is what I was trying to get across earlier (but failed miserably) Thanks for eloquently putting words to my thoughts

[Something completely different]

I don't know, Germans. Sounds pretty racist to me.

Racist would be if I would call them out for being uncapable to modernise. Or uncapable to modernise by themselves.

I'm not suggesting that Muslims aren't a problem. IRA members who plant bombs are equally a problem. But you don't recommend shipping the Irish back home.

Bad example

Because most of them planted their bombs at home.

You're conflating the problems of nations and international politics with those of individuals and immigration.

Why not? Sociaty is not a stiff alignment of segments in which non of these segments interact. A sociaty is like a woven carpet in motion - in which every aspect is influenced by another.

And my thesis is as following: The Islamic culture in the current Islamic world, caused throught all factores dominant in shaping the sociaties and cultures - does not fit together with modern western principles.
And those who believe they can import these to a western country - should get kicked out!
In alot of european countries, the formation of organisations which are dedicated to overthrow democracy and the rule of law is a punishable offence. Neo fascists aswell as communists therefor often find themselves in prison - this should be extended to islamists.

You don't like the views of Muslims and some Muslim immigrants, so instead of using the tools of politics, law, and social discourse, which are the accepted tools of any pluralistic society, you want to use immigration policy to enforce your political views. That's a cheap, effective solution, but it also makes you as unpluralistic and anti-democratic as they are. Just because evil doesn't wear a turban doesn't make it any less evil.

In order to participate in a pluralistic sociaty, one must accept that pluralism , and become part of it - by respecting the existance of others and the moral values and laws which guarantee the participation of veryone within a pluralistic sociaty.

If one does not do so, it is justifyable to use juristicial methods to exclude these from pluralism - who would use it to abolish it.

Especialy considering 20th century european history - I think it is a right move to take.

Here in America, there is hatred and resentment of Mexicans. So people want to close the borders and send any undocumenteds back to Mexico. It's the same deal. People want to deal with their unease with accommodating people who are different than they are by using immigration policy and inflammatory racist rhetoric.

Not the same thing.

Mexicans dont hold deep disregard for pluralism and democracy.

Playing the race card is not wrong if racism is being used to support indefensible policies. And playing the "you're just playing the race card" card has become a convenient way for racists to stifle criticism of their racism. Fuck you.

Being offended of cultural "values" formed under the strong influence of a religion - is not racist.
Seeking to inable people who would abolish democracy - is not racist.

[Angrboda]

Now you're just pulling shit out of your ass.

No one person, group, ideology or bloc gets to decide what society is for everyone. Everyone decides. That's pluralism. That makes you as unpluralistic as them.

Please report for internment. Your values offend me and are a danger to a pluralistic society.