God is the great spirit friend

[Jackalope]

Thanks Jrsm, I can tell you're a beautiful person too.

Cthulhu, did you ever figure out where the home-state of Coors is?

As for life being precious: Every single moment is now When I was a believer I felt like I was waiting out my time on earth, and on my especially dramatic or tragic days I would sing "in the arms of the angels" and,
"I'm coming home, I'm coming home. Tell the world I'm coming home. Let the rain wash away, all the pain of yesterday. Where my kingdom awaits. I've been forgiven my mistakes, I'm coming home. I'm coming home. Tell the world I'm coming.....home."

God, was that depressing
You know my life outlook has gotten so much better not believing that there's some god above allowing every single hit through to me for some unknown reason that I wont find out until I'm dead? It's not much of a consolation (when you're dying) that there's a massive fortune of treasure I'm building up at the end of the tunnel. Nor is it consolation to go to heaven knowing those you love will be left without you, and that some of them may not ever reach heaven. In the end what lost my faith, I think, was all those who wouldn't make it to heaven but didn't deserve hell.
I'm totally fine with living here, now, making every moment I have with those I love count.

Home state of Coors? I must have missed that post. Colorado?

[Creed of Heresy]

Your story made me smile...not because you suffered but because you overcame it. And because it didn't change who you are as a person. That's always key.

[Esquilax]

Still, I've never been happier in my entire life. I am still a good person, my life is still ruled by love. I just love myself, too. My self worth is within myself, not in my identity of being god's child, not in how good or bad I'm doing at being his servant. And this has allowed others to love me and get closer to me. I'm getting married next Christmas, never thought that would happen.. And this man loves me despite all of the above, without a second thought he does. And he doesn't do it because god told him that's how he should, he's just a decent human being sans god.

Ooh boy does he ever love you

Just thought I'd say that. Your posts these last few pages have alternated between laugh out loud funny (that "god is good! god is great!" cheer from a few pages back ) to the sad stuff that still makes me wanna just hug the crap out of you until you forget it all, and now this heartwarming stuff? Damn, Missy

I love ya, gurl!

[Tonus]

When I was a believer I felt like I was waiting out my time on earth,

My mother is like that even now, and I remember that feeling well when I was a believer. Since the Jehovah's Witnesses constantly teach that the end is very near, the membership tends to live life under the assumption that it's best to spend as much of it in some sort of spiritual activity and at the expense of anything related to actually living life. At various times I expected that I wouldn't have to worry about what high school would be like, or about pursuing higher education after high school, or about whether I'd have a career, etc. Each milestone would pass, and the world was still here.

I have been fortunate enough that the work ethic that I learned from my dad and the fact that one of my interests (computers) provided a very valuable skill to my employer allowed me to turn a job sorting mail and making copies into a career in IT. Otherwise I might be bagging groceries at a local supermarket and wondering if things might have been different.

[thesummerqueen]

Missluckie -

I'd like to offer you congratulations on struggling through much hardship to finding reality, and commend you on surviving unbelievable shit, but anything I've come up with sounds pathetically hollow in the face of what you actually went through and so lamely I only can second what jrsm said. It takes a person of strength to post such details in a public space when you know you're more than likely going to get criticized by sanctimonious twerps.

Which is part of what makes me even more angry now, to see strodel's sudden hush and "I don't know why God didn't..."

As a humanist, the victim blaming that is all-pervasive in monotheistic religions particularly is sickening to the extreme and I can only hope that his current silence means strodel is pondering what his spewings actually mean. Perhaps instead of writing all of us off as sinful and depraved creatures, he'll consider that many of us on this forum already went through the period he is in, or tried our best to get there, with as much or more than the effort he seems to think is necessary.

I 'troll' you with hedonistic comments, strodel, because I find it funny to flaunt my 'sin' in your face as you continue to 'sin' in my eyes by being an unmitigated arsewipe to people you don't deserve to judge or preach to or feel the slightest bit holier-than-thou towards.

Someone called bullshit on your big, bad 'god', a being that shouldn't need defending, and you retaliate because it hurts you personally...because deep down inside you know that your personal god only exists inside your personal head, and looking at that fact too closely might just be its undoing.

[Mystical]

Aw Esqy I love you too. Sorry about your coffee:/ You know what Miss Summerqueen? Come to think of it when it turned out the praying and giving it my all didnt work, they just turned it right back around on me based on the weaknesses in my life. that being sick probably saved me from a worser fate of the path i was taking. I was in premed, and I didnt do drugs at the time i finally started classes. before that, sure. For an entire year out of my life from highschool to college i experimented., but I grew out of it for bigger and better things before i was cut down completely by an illness I'd spent my entire life dealing with silently. I just accepted what they said for years: trust that god know best, etc. oh but you bet no one else suggested that medicine is standing in the way of being better. instead it became my faith: double edged sword: believe god is giving you the best there is in life, trust him to guide you through incomprehensible bullshit without question, or else face hell when u do finally die. the unfair factor i got to experience is only minute compared to people all over this earth that people like christians expect a book to feed. theyre more concerned with whether a starvng or dying person has submitted their existencial rights to the forgiveness that kind spirit friend god offers, then the people die and those who shared that "gift" with them get to add one more tally on their rewards card. maybe they shoulda brought food and seeds and a shovel with them, not books

[Mystic]

We should always ask why God created a system where evil occurs (if he exists). It doesn't make sense to ask why God doesn't interfere in this and that, because, it's obvious God doesn't interfere. The individual evils are a by product of the over goal of the system. We had a thread about this issue. But I thought I would bring this argument.

1) A benevolent Creator can possibly exist with the world of evil and suffering, if there is (a) benevolent reason(s) behind evil and suffering existing.
2) It is possible that the purpose of the system is to bring EARNED praise, along with diversity in experience of praise, to enrich the human experience of their humanity.
3) It's possible that a greater degree of praise is only possible by how we deal with evil and tribulations, on an individual scale, and on a community scale.
4) It's possible that in the long run, peace will be the condition of humanity, and that any opportunity of earned praise would be seen worthy of any suffering/evil specially if part of the peace of many humans will be in how they dealt with the suffering in a praiseworthy manner.
5) It's possible the many types of evils out there is so that we have diversity in praiseworthy human experience in dealing with suffering.

I think this is a possible solution to the problem of evil.

[Tonus]

Come to think of it when it turned out the praying and giving it my all didnt work, they just turned it right back around on me based on the weaknesses in my life. that being sick probably saved me from a worser fate of the path i was taking.

This is an all too common approach with theists, that anything that happens can be rationalized into something good. If things go well, then god blessed you, just like he always does. If things go badly, then it was for a good reason, and god's blessing will become manifest in time. Or maybe you weren't doing it right, and god is so good that he's giving you a chance to try again.

You know who else thought that way? The false friends who were sent to torment Job when he was suffering.

[FallentoReason]

Wow, this thread has gotten pretty brutal. Good on you Missy, you're by far the most mentally strong person I've ever known on a... somewhat personal level

In jstrodel's defence though... two different people told him he should change his name to Joseph. Miracles left and right I tell ya. Praise Jeebuuuus!

[thesummerqueen]

You have to understand (well, you probably do), luckie, that these people are as addicted to religion (and being right) as others are addicted to drugs. It is the foundation of their world, prone to giving them just as many hallucinations, the same euphoria rush, and yanking it away from them will produce almost the same effects. Except unlike drugs, most people on the planet are under the impression that religion is good, necessary, and truthful (at least to some degree), so they won't listen if someone says anything bad about it. Then they'd have to share the same sinking feeling as those nasty druggies..."did I waste my life"? No one likes being wrong, but more rational people can accept it and move on. These people think their life would be in utter shambles (in same cases, it would be) if they moved away from religion. Our existence in happy, healthy lives makes them doubt the foundations of their world. They're afraid of not having that rock-solid certainty...deathly afraid. And they're afraid to be insignificant. In God's eyes, after all, everyone is special.

strodel will have to keep telling all of us that we're horrible people - sinners and hedonists - so that he knows he's a good person. Having a different opinion invalidates his own, because deep down he's that insecure - he can't just be happy with his own beliefs and truths. Mostly because they're wrong, but also because his self-esteem and self-worth are all riding on them.

A secure person doesn't need the validation of masses to know they're right - even if it would be nice. That's why real scientists don't scream about having their feelings hurt when people reject their findings...they know they'll be vindicated in the end. It would be nice if people into religion would take the same attitude.