atheism, philosophy and emotional immaturity

[Tex]

Did someone really just say... that an argument from authority... is, is valid???

Strodel, there are old people that disagree with you. They may not yell as loud and their panties mind not wad up so easily (in this case, diapers), but that doesn't mean that older=argument is correct, and that is what you are arguing for. I strongly hope you don't mean that. Please mean that you only think that the elderly should be more respected for their greater experience? Please?

[Angrboda]

Beliefs or non-beliefs only require justification when they affect you directly.

What is the justification for morals? What is the justification for free-will? What is the justification for justice? Human rights? Perpetual identity? There is none. Yet these effect us the most.

The most sacred of humanity's beliefs are without justification. They cannot be proven but humanity needs to hold on to them.

I'd like to see you justify that humanity "needs to hold onto" free will, "justice" (whatever you mean by this), perpetual identity (really?), and human rights (as normally conceived as objective truths independent of arbitrary political establishment of them), please. I don't see any of these as "necessary" to humanity.

(Of these, only justice seems in any sense useful or necessary, but the fact is, justice is as often honored in the breach as not, and humanity appears to be managing quite fine, regardless. Additionally, justice of a sort can be justified.)

[thesummerqueen]

It has come to my attention that many atheists believe that the argument from authority is essentially a fallacious argument. I am not going to argue that the argument from authority is, in essence, a fallacy. That is too obvious of a point to make. Of course the argument from authority is a real argument and not a blatant logical fallacy (and of course some arguments from authority are better than others and some are completely fallacious).

So…it’s a fallacy but not a fallacy? Hmmmm…

Age - people that believe that the argument from authority is fallacious are typically under 25.

Source? If it’s your own observation, that’s not good enough.

Hubris - Hubris is a vice that is related to people having a greater sense of self confidence than is warranted given a certain situation.

Source? This is your own biased judgment call.

Over confidence in informal reason as a means to understand to understand the world. Reason is a valuable tool that can be used to understand the world.

I’m glad we agree that “reason” is a valuable tool. Please begin to demonstrate it.

I think their are issues related to adolescent and young adult development that are involved in the rejection of the argument from authority that are significant to understanding the atheist approach to religious epistemology, and epistemology in general.

False. Many atheists fall for the argument from authority. It just happens in a way that has nothing to do with god. Please

Thanks for being a good example of what I am saying Mr Infidel. I can see from your profile that you are under 20. You posted an image of propaganda telling people to think for yourself, but you didn't argue why, you just repeated what they told you.

His age has nothing to do with it. Also, it’s not propaganda.

Do you see how this is contradictory to the message? If you thought for yourself, wouldn't you defend your ideas clearly and not repeat a trite slogan?

I didn’t think such a statement needed an explanation. Did you need an explanation on why you should think for yourself? My goodness – we’ve hit upon the very problem, haven’t we?

When I was young, I used to do crazy things and rebel against people and think I was thinking for myself and this and that. Really, I was just following the trends of the counterculture which was using all these ideas to try and mold me into the atheist/socialist they wanted me to become.

Darling, no one cares. About you, I mean. And by that I mean there isn’t some overarching counterculture conspiracy out to get you. You seem to feel you’re important enough for a massive group of people to try to sway you to their side. You also seem to be afraid of things you experienced.

I am not against questioning authority, but I think the principle should be applied with wisdom. It is not good to question the authority of doctors and say "If you have cancer, don't go to the doctor, I am questioning authority". Authority is a good thing. That is how the world works, there are authorities because some know more than others.

I don’t think you quite understand what it means to question authority.

Someone could make an argument from authority to a church that had a history of 2000 years of giving authoritative pronouncements that shaped entire civilizations.

Pronouncements that can’t be quantified anywhere else. Big problem.

I was in high school for 5 1/2 years and I dropped out of college. I am not better or smarter than anyone else and I'm not trying to be. I just realize that some of you guys don't know what you are talking about.

I barely made it out of high school and I’m only just now going to college. I’m definitely not smarter than many members on this board. I just realize that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, because you want to be right so badly you won’t even read what’s being written to you. Ever.

Notice that even the evidence presented in the form of 3 textbooks that are cited is itself an argument from authority.

My little cupcake, that is a mechanism to cite your source. That way people can go back and check it. It doesn’t make the book “an authority”.

Because I am a dumb person. I looked at Mr Infidels profile and went to his website and you can see his picture. He looks like someone who would post a response to the thoughtful, 4 or 5 paragraphs with an image saying "question authority", without argument. How ironic.

You were dumb because you based your judgment on a profile picture. The profile picture is one mode of expression in a multi-faceted person. It does not carry the entirety of a person’s personality or reality. I realize you have a problem telling fantasy from reality, but this is beyond stupid.

Emotional immaturity is when you post a one sentence argument for a position that is a naked assertion that is completely radical, even by the standards of atheist approaches to knowledge, and you think you are automatically right because Christian beliefs are "irrational".

Emotional immaturity is expecting people to bow to your way of thinking and communicating. Intellectual immaturity is not understanding that one sentence can make an argument as long as it’s a sound one. I think I joked to Deist Paladin once because he accepted my line of thinking on only 2 sentences, whereas another theist on this board used to give him 2 pages.

Ok, that is what I believe. So what is the significance in saying that atheism is not a belief, atheism is rejecting belief? Isn't the intention to imply that atheism does not require any sense of justification for its rejection of theistic claims?

Please look at this:





Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. Where God would be is a blank slate. Nada. Void.

You can be atheist because you never believed in “god”. You can be an atheist and believe in many other things.

Do not come back until you have figured these sentences out.

[The Grand Nudger]

Do not come back.

I trimmed your post for you. Brevity my love.

[thesummerqueen]

Do not come back.

I trimmed your post for you. Brevity my love.

[blows kiss]

[jstrodel]

the summer queen: http://www.google.com - argument from authority - do yourself a favor and stop looking like an idiot

[Joel]

the summer queen: http://www.google.com - argument from authority - do yourself a favor and stop looking like an idiot

It was getting boring without you!

[thesummerqueen]

Why would I need to Google it when you're determined to change it's meaning?

[Darkstar]

the summer queen: http://www.google.com - argument from authority - do yourself a favor and stop looking like an idiot

First hit:

Argument from authority (argumentum ad verecundiam), also authoritative argument and appeal to authority, is an inductive-reasoning argument that often takes the form of a statistical syllogism. Although certain classes of argument from authority can constitute strong inductive arguments, the appeal to authority is often applied fallaciously: either the authority is not a subject-matter expert, or there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter, or both.

When you cited a chemist's rejection of evolution as evidence that evolution was false (at least I think that is what it was about) it was fallacious because the chemist was not a subject-matter expert.

[Kayenneh]

do yourself a favor and stop looking like an idiot

Look at her avatar. Look at yourself in the mirror. Now look back at Summer. One is the idiot, the other one isn't. Don't be a hater just because she's brilliant inside and out, and you're not.