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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:39 pm
If you were to logically necessitate that there were no teapot then surely you would believe there was no teapot? Are you telling me you would have no belief about the teapot in this situation? Like if someone said to you - "Do you believe there is no teapot" you would say "I don't believe anything about that teapot"....
I'd say that's strange...
So you don't have any beliefs about God? You don't believe it's imaginary? So you accept the possibility (though maybe slight) that God exists?
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Quote: but to believe that there is no teapot would be to have belief.
That is significantly different to saying "I don't believe you."
(March 30, 2013 at 9:51 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: Never read anything immoral in the Qur'an.
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:40 pm
(April 22, 2013 at 5:34 pm)Dawud Wrote: Well if I said there was a teapot flying around in the debris of space you would not be compelled to believe me (there is no evidence) - but to believe that there is no teapot would be to have belief. Like if there was an agnostic regarding the teapot who said "it doesn't matter it doesn't affect me!" - they wouldn't believe either way. But if you said to them "no - there is no teapot" that would be quite different - they could believe your statement or not: it is a claim about the way the universe is...
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Has to be:
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:40 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 5:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 22, 2013 at 5:34 pm)Dawud Wrote: Well if I said there was a teapot flying around in the debris of space you would not be compelled to believe me (there is no evidence) - but to believe that there is no teapot would be to have belief. No I wouldn't, but I'm notoriously finicky about the word belief - and the way you'll use it leads me to state that I have no beliefs.
Quote: Like if there was an agnostic regarding the teapot who said "it doesn't matter it doesn't affect me!" - they wouldn't believe either way. But if you said to them "no - there is no teapot" that would be quite different - they could believe your statement or not: it is a claim about the way the universe is...
Gnosis is not about belief, it's about knowledge. Switching between the two shoots your non-point in the foot. For the record, I'm not an atheist or an agnostic with regards to your god, or space teapots.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:48 pm
It's not a mute point - most people have belief in their knowledge to some degree...
Some people surely have a belief that there is no God.... Or believe that there is no such thing as a whole number <1 and >0
In fact I would say that it is possible to believe in these non-existences so much so that some people are convinced.
You may not have any beliefs but I would say that it is perfectly possible to fully believe that there is no God.
I would also say that this belief can have a profound effect in someone's life...
But you disagree....
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:50 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 5:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-You would say that- because you hope to establish parity - and that's something I would not grant. I asked you similr question in another thread - please, try to find some call to action that follows from "I do not believe in god"-
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 5:58 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm by Ben Davis.)
(April 22, 2013 at 5:34 pm)Dawud Wrote: Well if I said there was a teapot flying around in the debris of space you would not be compelled to believe me (there is no evidence) - but to believe that there is no teapot would be to have belief.
You're conflating 'atheism' with 'antitheism'; an atheistic position is 'I have no belief in god/s' whilst an antitheistic position is 'there is/are no god/s'. Antitheism is a subset of atheism but not all atheists are antitheists.
Quote:Like if there was an agnostic regarding the teapot who said "it doesn't matter it doesn't affect me!" - they wouldn't believe either way. But if you said to them "no - there is no teapot" that would be quite different - they could believe your statement or not: it is a claim about the way the universe is...
Knowledge and belief are two different positions; the former deals with what you know, the latter with what you believe. One can be:
- a gnostic theist (claims to know there is a god)
- a gnostic atheist (claims to know there is no god - an antitheist)
- an agnostic theist (believes there's a god but makes no claim to 'know')
- an agnostic atheist (doesn't believe in god but makes no claim to 'know')
The 2 positions are not mutually exclusive.
So, to the OP:
1. No, atheism can never compel someone to do something because it is the absence of theism, nothing more. Atheism is not a value system, it's a result of value systems.
2. No. See 1.
3. No. See 1.
Sum ergo sum
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 6:03 pm by Joel.)
Quote:You're conflating 'atheism' with 'antitheism'; an atheistic position is 'I have no belief in god/s' whilst an antitheistic position is 'there is/are no god/s'. Antitheism is a subset of atheism but not all atheists are antitheists.
Are you sure that's not Gnostic Atheist?
One can be against a belief in god (anti) even if they're agnostic.
(March 30, 2013 at 9:51 pm)ThatMuslimGuy2 Wrote: Never read anything immoral in the Qur'an.
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm
Thanks
So Rhythm - you are an agnostic atheist: you don't claim to know.
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RE: Has atheism made you different?
April 22, 2013 at 6:04 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2013 at 6:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
No, I'm an antitheist, an atheist for all god claims-and the gnostic variety for all god claims I've ever heard.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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