Has atheism made you different?

[Dawud]

Awareness of this absence of belief can motivate...

Curiously, this idea is probably only applied with regards to belief in god. If you do not believe in space aliens, does your awareness of that lack of belief motivate you in any way? Unicorns? Martians? Talking earthworms? There are a great many things that you probably do not believe exists. What does this awareness motivate you to do?

My agnosticism motivates me to tell you that I think there probably aren't any of these things.

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Awareness of this absence of belief can motivate...

Surely you believe you have an absence of belief regarding God NonyMouse?

Or are you unsure and think you might believe?

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You believe you are agnostic?

I fit the definition of atheist. That is not a belief but a fact. That is knowledge not belief.

OK NonyMouse - I was only assuming you believe what you know...

Do you believe you are agnostic?

I worry you are just using different meanings of common words now. You are better than that!

Just admit that knowing you are agnostic can affect your behaviour - if you are aware you are agnostic then you obviously believe you are agnostic to some degree (using the definition of believe as holding something to be true). This is self knowledge and can lead to behaviour!

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I see a kind of silly argument that is consistent:
"Atheism is nothing physical so cannot effect you". I'll give you that if you really want

But as soon as someone considers the self to be agnostic towards God - they then have self knowledge and its just head in the sand stuff to pretend that this self knowledge has no effect on people. I think people just want to pretend that an identity as "an atheist" cannot affect someone....

It clearly can... And this doesn't undermine atheism whatsoever!

Can we agree to this??

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Someone who considers them self "atheist" can be motivated by this identification!

[Tonus]

My agnosticism motivates me to tell you that I think there probably aren't any of these things.

Which is what atheists here have been saying in regards to god. I'm not sure what the issue is, then.

[Dawud]

Great!

It's just that people here said that it is wrong to claim that the atheist identity can cause behaviour.

I'm glad I clarified myself enough!

That was a nightmare!

[Whateverist]

Thanks maelstrom -

Atheism is then seen as a kind if default then?

Not just in analytical philosophy but when a human is born...

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So this default position cannot affect any behaviour in anyone.

Or it can but its not the atheism but wot did it...

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If someone changed back to being atheist their agnostic view on the world (I.e. a view on the world that neither accepts or denies the possibility of God) would have no effect in their behaviour.

If you can't have an agnostic view on the world then answer me this: what do -you- call a view on the world that neither accepts nor rejects the possibility of God existing? Then substitute the term "agnostic view on the world" with your preferred terminology

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Right - Im going to stop using the term atheist as it is used in UK philosophy circles (as it has a broader meaning here that would be to confusing and unclear in philosophy) and Im going to start using the term agnostic for agnostics instead of atheists. So I must ask - an antitheist - does it have a pretty broad meaning or is it now being used to mean denial of existence of God? Or does it mean even if there is God I am against the idea of following the creator's guidance?

Or does it also mean agnostic? I.e. anti(before) theist like being in a state before believing in God.

How do you use these words here?

Hey Dawud, you seem like a decent enough chap and I don't mean to ignore you. But if any of your remarks are directed to me I just can't tell. Unless you quote some snippet or mention a name there is little chance of recognizing what you may be responding to. Just sayin'.

(By the way, cool user name. That's one of my wife's terms of endearment for me. "Here come da' wood" she often says when she gets a little frisky.)

[Cyberman]

On the subject of "using different meanings of common words", I must point out that an agnostic is not someone who "neither accepts or denies the possibility of God", but rather someone who does not profess to know of such an entity's existence. Gnosticism and agnosticism refer to what a person knows (from the Greek gnṓsis: knowledge, inquiry); whereas theism and atheism refer to belief. The two terms are not mutually exclusive and together can provide a more complete picture of a person's viewpoint. Typically, the spectrum runs: gnostic theist, agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist.

As for "antitheist", while such a belief system (i.e. someone who actively opposes theism) does exist I fear you are using the wrong prefix when you say that the word means "anti(before) theist like being in a state before believing in God". The prefix you require to make this work would be ante - as in anteroom (a small room admitting to a larger room), antenatal (before birth), antelope (prior to - er, a lope).

[A_Nony_Mouse]

Curiously, this idea is probably only applied with regards to belief in god. If you do not believe in space aliens, does your awareness of that lack of belief motivate you in any way? Unicorns? Martians? Talking earthworms? There are a great many things that you probably do not believe exists. What does this awareness motivate you to do?

My agnosticism motivates me to tell you that I think there probably aren't any of these things.

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I fit the definition of atheist. That is not a belief but a fact. That is knowledge not belief.

OK NonyMouse - I was only assuming you believe what you know...

Do you believe you are agnostic?

How fucking stupid can you post before we have to assume you are stupid beyond belief? You now demonstrate you are incapable of understanding the difference between atheist and agnostic. I go back to my first post. Who is turning the computer on for you as obviously you are not capable of grasping how to do it as it is too hard for your limited intellect.

I worry you are just using different meanings of common words now. You are better than that!

Just admit that knowing you are agnostic can affect your behaviour - if you are aware you are agnostic then you obviously believe you are agnostic to some degree (using the definition of believe as holding something to be true). This is self knowledge and can lead to behaviour!

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I see a kind of silly argument that is consistent:
"Atheism is nothing physical so cannot effect you". I'll give you that if you really want

But as soon as someone considers the self to be agnostic towards God - they then have self knowledge and its just head in the sand stuff to pretend that this self knowledge has no effect on people. I think people just want to pretend that an identity as "an atheist" cannot affect someone....

It clearly can... And this doesn't undermine atheism whatsoever!

Can we agree to this??

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Someone who considers them self "atheist" can be motivated by this identification!

Dear Dumbass,
I said satisfies the definition Atheist. Can you not read?

[The Grand Nudger]

I doubt that your agnosticism motivated you to any such thing Dawud. I think a question motivated you. I think a desire to share your thoughts motivated you. I think that an undeniable urge to push a viewpoint despite all explanation to the contrary motivated you. How agnosticism motivated you...well, who knows.

You're no closer to establishing what you hoped to establish now than you were when you created the thread.

[Dawud]

So no one can desire to share thoughts in their awareness of their agnosticism? Or do anything due to their awareness of their agnosticism?

Plenty if people agree with me Rhythm. An awareness or knowledge of an agnostic identity or an atheist identity can motivate people and it is something that they can have knowledge of and thoughts on... These knowledge and thoughts (alongside others) can cause someone to do something because they know they are atheist...

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I know I am atheist therefore if someone asks me if I am atheist I will say yes.

The awareness of the atheist identity was important above... Alongside other things too but take away the awareness of the atheist identity and it is easy to see how this could make someone different.... And and its plain to see that this knowledge of an atheist identity can motivate...

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* add the knowledge back to the person that they are atheist and it is plain to see that knowledge of an atheist identity is clearly knowledge that can affect behavioir

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It's not rocket science

[The Grand Nudger]

So no one can desire to share thoughts in their awareness of their agnosticism? Or do anything due to their awareness of their agnosticism?

Plenty if people agree with me Rhythm.

Sure you can "share your awareness" but how that addresses what compels or motivates is a mystery. The whole point of this little excercise is to manufacture parity between goddities and non-belief or lack of knowledge. There is none. I've explained very simply why - I've done 90% of what you would need to do to manufacture that parity - and you chose not to follow up.

god, god, god, god, god - therefore (a metric shitload of garbage follows from a metric shitload of god garbage)
I don't believe, therefore - ?
I don't know, therefore - ?

While some aren't begrudging you your use of language because it's easy to understand what you -mean-, I am, because I've already seen, in two threads - what you desperately want to conclude- and it is a conclusion that you simply cannot reach without first greasing the hole(something you've clearly realized).

An awareness or knowledge of an agnostic identity or an atheist identity can motivate people and it is something that they can have knowledge of and thoughts on... These knowledge and thoughts (alongside others) can cause someone to do something because they know they are atheist...

You keep claiming this, but you can't come up with anything that follows.

I know I am atheist therefore if someone asks me if I am atheist I will say yes.

Compelled by a question, compelled by an urge to answer a question honestly. For example, if someone thought that it was none of your business they could both be an atheist and refuse to answer. If they wanted to yank your chain they could both be an atheist and tell you that they are Jedi - just for shits and giggles.

The awareness of the atheist identity was important above... Alongside other things too but take away the awareness of the atheist identity and it is easy to see how this could make someone different.... And and its plain to see that this knowledge of an atheist identity can motivate...

B-mine

No, it isn't easy to see how this could -make- someone different in anything beyond the status of whether or not they believed in a god. Which is probably why it's difficult to point out an atheist in a crowd.

There you go again, reasserting what you must demonstrate. Pages and pages and pages of this shit.

* add the knowledge back to the person that they are atheist and it is plain to see that knowledge of an atheist identity is clearly knowledge that can affect behavioir

Your own bit above (that I bolded) comes back to haunt you. More reassertion. It should be blistering easy to fill in the blanks by now - with as many times as you've claimed that it is plain, clear, etc.

It's not rocket science

I agree. Non-belief and lack of knowledge are not actionable. Something else is required. Meanwhile, god belief and god "knowledge" are highly actionable, and the justifications for any action are long daisy chains of god this god that. This is not rocket science.

[bladevalant546]

Dawud I believe there is some true to your statement. Beliefs or whatever you call them as theism, atheism, agnosticism or deism. All of which can affect your views. Reason being is that those affects perceptions and thought-process which molds the lense which you see the world through. I thought up this psychological hypothesis in response to the apperent lack of arguments power to sway anyones opinion regardless of potency of the argument or even evidence.

How this plays into this discussion is simple as you take a philosophical stance this stance will affect your perceptions. Such desires can be morality, ethics, or how you view reality. How such beliefs affect these is simple if your a theistic these are dictated by laws deemed by the creator. Atheism and agnosticism there are no such "higher" authority thus it becomes a subjective term. Now such things can be reliant on the psychological termperment to decide how one executes these, however these are highly affected by which major philosophical stance you hold.

Another major point is your thought-processes are going to be affect. In those processes you will create you own laws of logic, what you will deem as a rational argument, and even what can count as evidence. This will then affect the lense you take input of information from the world around you. If you observe debates in this case a theist vs atheist you will see this happen. Either side can present rather compelling arguments, however those arguments will not sway the stances of the individuals. Why I guess is because once it passes through the lense, it will then be filtered by the thought processes, which the foundations were influenced by those philosophical stances.

Now I do understand that many other factors do influence ones world views or stances such as enviroment and up bringing. However, I feel this can be observed even here you can see this happening. I feel we need to learn we can learn great deal from each other. However, we are still very tribal thus our thought processes will create zealous defiance to defend our stances. I even do it myself.