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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 7:18 am
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2013 at 7:21 am by Rahul.)
(June 25, 2013 at 3:43 am)Godschild Wrote: Go look in the NT, I'm tired of doing all the foot work for those who want read what they argue against. Just how is it you can argue against something you have not read and studied.
Yeah, being spoon fed Christianity from birth must have been a real challenge for your superior intellect.
The Bible ain't proof.
I was raised in Church. Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday evening for 20 years. I have a leather bound bible with my name embossed on the front in gold gilt. And I've got it heavily footnoted in my own handwriting from back when I took it for granted with no evidence.
I had a reputation in the military for having a very good knowledge of that book of fairy tales.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 9:10 am
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2013 at 9:11 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 25, 2013 at 3:43 am)Godschild Wrote: Go look in the NT, I'm tired of doing all the foot work for those who want read what they argue against. Just how is it you can argue against something you have not read and studied.
"One must first study the proper cut of invisible fabrics, before he can claim that the emperor has no clothes" 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 9:14 am
If anyone really reads the bible and still believes it is true, he or she needs to see a shrink. PERIOD.
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 9:36 am
In all my years as an atheist one of the few things I have never discussed is whether or not Jesus actually existed. I always kind of took it that he did - merely that he obviously wasn't who Christianity thinks he was.
Just in support of the argument that he did (and I have no horse in the race) I seem to recall hearing that there were other "gospels" that didn't make it into the Bible as we have it today. Amongst these are, apparently, one from Judas Iscariot and one from Mary Magdalene, both of whom would have been eye-witnesses. I have obviously never seen these texts but it would be ironic if there were locked away in the vaults of the Vatican never to see the light of day.
Now if you are going to ask me when Judas found the time to write his I couldn't tell you.
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 9:44 am
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2013 at 9:46 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Neither are locked away, they don't "fit" with the rest of the gospels, and aren't classified as such. In any case, their inclusion into canon would have little effect, as they would be subject to the same criticism as any of the other narratives.
"I don't believe that Dracula ever existed"
-"well..... I have here an excerpt from the journal of Jonathan Harker..who was an eyewitness to the events...."
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 10:57 am
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2013 at 10:58 am by Rahul.)
(June 25, 2013 at 9:36 am)max-greece Wrote: In all my years as an atheist one of the few things I have never discussed is whether or not Jesus actually existed. I always kind of took it that he did - merely that he obviously wasn't who Christianity thinks he was.
Just in support of the argument that he did (and I have no horse in the race) I seem to recall hearing that there were other "gospels" that didn't make it into the Bible as we have it today. Amongst these are, apparently, one from Judas Iscariot and one from Mary Magdalene, both of whom would have been eye-witnesses. I have obviously never seen these texts but it would be ironic if there were locked away in the vaults of the Vatican never to see the light of day.
Now if you are going to ask me when Judas found the time to write his I couldn't tell you.
The Dead Sea scrolls. Yeah, they've been published. They were found by a kid searching in caves near the Dead Sea for some missing goats or something like that. He threw a rock in and heard pottery breaking. Went in a found them.
They eventually found their way to the Vatican where the Catholics sat on them for years. Then reluctantly released them to the public.
I remember seeing it being sold in books stores years and years back.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 11:04 am
I would add that it is important, in the case of "Judas Iscariot", to consider why the character has that name at all. It must be borne in mind that the authors of the relevant gospels on this point realised that they were going to have to continue living under Roman rule for at least the foreseeable future; so it would hardly be politic to go on record as accusing the then most powerful military empire of murdering their messiah, now would it?
Hence the whole episode of Pilate practically begging to set the superhero free but stood powerless - and blameless - in the face of those perfidious Jews (in the text, anyway) baying for blood. And then of course we have the Christ's betrayer whose name, quite coincidentally, is that of the entire Messiah-denying race. From such tiny seeds hath mighty atrocities been wrought.
At least, I would point that out but apparently I'm already kinky for conspiracy theories anyway. Fortunately, though, far more erudite and respected scholars than I have reached the same conclusion - apologies for not providing linkies but I'm rather limited right now not having access to my pc. I'm sure Min or someone can fill in the blanks.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 11:34 am
Good point. Always wondered why of the 3 parties involved in the crucifixion the Romans got off scot free. The Jews got it in the neck and Judas is the most vilified man in history.
Particularly galling when you consider that the Romans not only crucified him but tortured the crap out of him too - just for kicks. Jesus was forever doffing his cap to them too. It strikes me that as a group Christians are all to fond of absolute rulers.
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 11:36 am
Quote:Just because Josephus was born a few years after Christ's death rules him out as a reliable source.
You are an even bigger asshole than usual, G-C. You'd believe anything that tells you your horseshit is true...no matter how obviously forged it is.
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RE: Debating the existence of Jesus
June 25, 2013 at 11:42 am
(June 25, 2013 at 11:36 am)Minimalist Wrote: You are an even bigger asshole than usual, G-C. You'd believe anything that tells you your horseshit is true...no matter how obviously forged it is.
Confirmation Bias.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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