GodsChild a Few Quick Questions?

[LeoVonFrost]

One can not be forced saved, the decision must be yours alone, I've seen that very thing happen before and it makes me very upset. I'm sorry that happened to you. What it means for you is that if you have never accepted Christ of your own free will... well you haven't chosen Him as your Lord and Savior. Exactly how do you feel?

At the time I felt in my heart that I should accept him and I did, however now I believe jesus is a myth.

[Rahul]

I'm tired of it also, and would enjoy more of this type of discussion, sorry to have disappointed you, what point were you going to make.

Well, the point I was going to get to was this.

Most Baptists believe in once saved, always saved. The surety of the believer. No falling from grace.

So when you have someone like me, who everyone who knew me when I was a teenager or in most of my 20's was convinced I was saved, later leaves the fold, they do this weird mental gymnastics to explain it.

They claim that I was never saved in the first place.

The problem is was that I was positive I was saved back then. So if I could have been fooled. How can any of them be sure? No one can tell what they're going to be like a decade from now. You can guess, but that's all it is. A guess.

You see I can't support free will without going all the way, just because one chose to follow Christ does not mean one can not change their mind and choose not to.

Except I didn't choose anything. I just came to a shocking realization. I can no longer believe in God anymore than I can in Zeus. You can't just decide to believe something. It's not a choice. It's definetely not something I decided to do.

[fr0d0]

I think the realisation hits and then you declare it. You kind of identify with your position. You can't choose to believe something that you don't. The process of rationalisation comes first.
That's how I think it worked for me. I conveyed at age 25, deconverted at 30 and converted again at 48 (ages approximate).

[Norfolk And Chance]

So you believed, didn't believe, then believed again? In, out, in, out, shake it all about.

There's still hope for you yet.

[fr0d0]

lol

yes I haz authoriteh

[Godscreated]

You see I can't support free will without going all the way, just because one chose to follow Christ does not mean one can not change their mind and choose not to.

Except I didn't choose anything. I just came to a shocking realization. I can no longer believe in God anymore than I can in Zeus. You can't just decide to believe something. It's not a choice. It's definetely not something I decided to do.

Are you saying you did not choose Christ also. I'm not sure I can understand how one can not decide something, evidence one way or the other for an individual seems a requirement to understand what they believe or not believe. But, like I said I'm not sure what you mean.

[Rahul]

Are you saying you did not choose Christ also. I'm not sure I can understand how one can not decide something, evidence one way or the other for an individual seems a requirement to understand what they believe or not believe. But, like I said I'm not sure what you mean.

Pick any god. Zues, Odin, Thor, Ra. Any one of them that you do not believe in.

Now chose to believe that god is real.

You would respond, "That's ridiculous. Those gods are fake!"

Right?

Anyway, I never chose to believe in the Southern Baptist faith. I was being indoctrinated into it before I could even form a complete sentence.

I didn't chose to leave it. I just could no longer seriously believe in it.

Decide the sky is green with orange polka dots. Make that choice.

Can you do it?

[Godscreated]

Are you saying you did not choose Christ also. I'm not sure I can understand how one can not decide something, evidence one way or the other for an individual seems a requirement to understand what they believe or not believe. But, like I said I'm not sure what you mean.

Pick any god. Zues, Odin, Thor, Ra. Any one of them that you do not believe in.

Now chose to believe that god is real.

You would respond, "That's ridiculous. Those gods are fake!"

Right?

Anyway, I never chose to believe in the Southern Baptist faith. I was being indoctrinated into it before I could even form a complete sentence.

I didn't chose to leave it. I just could no longer seriously believe in it.

Decide the sky is green with orange polka dots. Make that choice.

Can you do it?

I do not believe in those gods because I was taught in school they were myths, I was given what I considered evidence they were not real.
I can see the sky is blue when there are no clouds, I've seen orange, yellow, pink skies at sunset, but I would never choose a green sky with orange polka dots, because I have seen the sky for many years and it has never appeared green.
If you never chose Christ, do you believe you were a Christian? Now I'm trying to understand something.

[Rahul]

If you never chose Christ, do you believe you were a Christian? Now I'm trying to understand something.

I chose to accept Christ as my savior because I was taught by my parents and my community that it was real. That God was real, that the stories in the Bible were real. That Jesus really existed. Grown ups taught me this before I could even read.

I really believed in Heaven and Hell.

I don't want to be a bad person. And I'm not... I hope. I really do hope. Am I a jerk sometimes, well online mostly, but occasionally though extremely rarely in person? Heck yeah.

But am I a thief, a crook, do I make people feel bad, do I want to? Do I not call my girls beautiful and take them to do silly things that hardly any other dads do normally? Like take them to catch crayfish (crawdads for other hicks like me) on sunny Saturday afternoons with some string and bacon? Do I make my wife feel beautiful and loved every chance I can? Am I one of those people that when they get an unsolicited sales phone call, that I can't just hang up, I have to politely talk to them, tell them that I'm really not interested, thank you.

I don't want to be a bad person, I don't want to be scum.

If God existed, I wouldn't rebel against Him. Heck no. Never.

I was taught that God is love, that the Bible is real, and this is what good people do. You get saved, you go to church, you indoctrinate your kids to believe in the same for their soul's sake.

If I believed this, if I could really find some reason to take it seriously, yeah, I'd still be a Christian.

I was one once. For most of my life.

Then I decided not to take it on blind faith, but with the best of intentions, to just critically exam it to myself, quietly, in my own head.

For around six years I did that.

You can't really do that, I do not believe, if you are fearlessly intellectually honest with yourself, and NOT come to the conclusion that it's not real, my friend.

And half the time I have debated Christians online, I didn't do it to mess with them, but I was waiting for one of them to tell me what the heck I'm missing.

Tell me something that brings it all together for me.

But it's just empty rote verbage I get. It kind of depresses me sometimes. But at the same time, I'm really happy that I woke up. And life is still amazing without that belief in a god. Actually in a lot of ways it's better. Because you aren't waiting for the great hereafter. You savor this. This moment. This time with those you love. Because once they're gone. They're gone forever. Everything becomes more precious to you.

---

I do not believe in those gods because I was taught in school they were myths, I was given what I considered evidence they were not real.

So if you were taught in school that the Bible and the associated god of the Bible was myth, that's what you would believe now as an adult?

I can see the sky is blue when there are no clouds, I've seen orange, yellow, pink skies at sunset, but I would never choose a green sky with orange polka dots, because I have seen the sky for many years and it has never appeared green.

Have you ever seen God?

I've never seen a green sky with orange polka dots nor have I seen Him. Why should I believe in either? Why do you believe in one but not the other one?

[fr0d0]

You we're a Christian, but you never rationalised it fully. Children understand things simply. The simple truth is enough for them. Adults questions need answers, so childish satisfaction turns into adult dissatisfaction. You naturally lose faith.
You don't choose disbelief in that situation, you realise it.

If course there is good reason for faith. You just don't know it.