Did God fire an Angel or Did an Angel just quit?

[The Reality Salesman01]

Torture? No. Tempt yes.

One question, 2 parts:
1) it the devil “tempting” people to rape and murder each other?
2) Would this otherwise take place if it weren’t for Satan?
Earth is where the wheat is threshed, sifted and winnowed from the chaff. (Where those who truly want to be with God and spend all they have to A/S/K for God, and those who do not are seperated from those who do.)

Satan and his followers are not gods or powers acting against God as the movies and some religions portray. The bible upto revelation shows (especially in the book of Job and in the temptations of Christ) that the devil is a reluctant servant of God, and can not do anything unless given permission.

So just to be clear, at some point, Satan had to pitch the idea of Rape and Murder to God, before God decided it was okay for Satan to run around tempting people to do it?

It is not till revelations 12 does satan finally declare war.

What year is revelation 12? I’m unfamiliar. Did Satan get cast out before or after “creation”?

Satan repersents choice via sin. Without satan there is no 'knoweledge' of sin. without this knoweledge there is no 'free will.' Fore there is only God's expressed will as witnessed by Adam and Eve upto the fall.

But, Satan displayed that he could choose differently before falling, so he didn’t know better until after he “fell”? Then where’s the harm? I’m confused. Plus, if Satan was able to act against God’s will before falling, then what you are saying doesn’t seem to follow.

God created a prision for Satan first, and we simply followed suit.

Ok. I just thought that maybe a God would have more options than a cage. Maybe like that black-hole thing from Man of Steel!

It was Between Creation and the Fall.
which could have been days, months years, eons millions of trillions of years. We do not know how long Adam lasted before he fell into temptation.

Oh that fall. I was asking about how long it took for God to create earth. Did he do it simultaneously while casting out Satan, so he’d have a prison for him, or was it like an after-thought? Like, Adam wandering around Earth, fine and dandy, and then God sends Satan there? Then Satan starts fucking up everything?

[Godscreated]

God created a prision for Satan first, and we simply followed suit.

Ok. I just thought that maybe a God would have more options than a cage. Maybe like that black-hole thing from Man of Steel!

It was Between Creation and the Fall.
which could have been days, months years, eons millions of trillions of years. We do not know how long Adam lasted before he fell into temptation.

Oh that fall. I was asking about how long it took for God to create earth. Did he do it simultaneously while casting out Satan, so he’d have a prison for him, or was it like an after-thought? Like, Adam wandering around Earth, fine and dandy, and then God sends Satan there? Then Satan starts fucking up everything?

Are you really that ignorant of what scripture says, if you are why do you even try to argue scripture?

[ronedee]

Jesus: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

What was the first temptation of Jesus in the wilderness? "If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.”

Satan was condemned for his pride and envy of God's power. Satan wanted what [wasn't] his to have. He believed he could exist separated from God. "Better to rule in Hell, than to serve in Heaven." But God actually used Satan's plan against him for the ultimate good to be revealed.

St. Michael proclaimed when throwing Lucifer in Hell: "Who is like God."

The original sin was: "that we would be like God, if we ate the fruit of this tree." Which was the knowledge of what sin really is; Separation from God.

But it is the "fruit" of the "tree" that Jesus was nailed to that will let us share in God's Divinity! "Be like God."

"As God shared in our humanity, so will we share in His divinity." Amen!

[The Reality Salesman01]

Ok. I just thought that maybe a God would have more options than a cage. Maybe like that black-hole thing from Man of Steel!


Oh that fall. I was asking about how long it took for God to create earth. Did he do it simultaneously while casting out Satan, so he’d have a prison for him, or was it like an after-thought? Like, Adam wandering around Earth, fine and dandy, and then God sends Satan there? Then Satan starts fucking up everything?

Are you really that ignorant of what scripture says, if you are why do you even try to argue scripture?

Show me where I argue scripture? I only ask those who claim to know. Me reading it, isn't important. You'd just say that my interpretation is wrong because I haven't had the spirit reveal the truths within it...or something like that. It's much easier to just discuss your interpretations of it.

[Godscreated]

Are you really that ignorant of what scripture says, if you are why do you even try to argue scripture?

Show me where I argue scripture? I only ask those who claim to know. Me reading it, isn't important. You'd just say that my interpretation is wrong because I haven't had the spirit reveal the truths within it...or something like that. It's much easier to just discuss your interpretations of it.

Don't you think hat having an idea of what scripture says would help in a discussion. The planet we live on was created in one day, this is easy to get from scripture. You can read scripture and get much from it, what I refer to as the surface knowledge. Spiritual meanings come from divine revelation by the Holy Spirit. Non believers can understand a lot from surface knowledge, especially salvation, God made this the simplest part of the scriptures to understand so the simplest minds can see God's gift. When I say people have a wrong interpretation is when they take a verse give it an interpretation without other supporting scripture. It's irritating to have someone who uses unsupported scripture to tell me I'm wrong, when I've done the research and found supporting verses, and all they want to do is use a single verse to support an argument and they use the verse wrongly.
Just discussing my interpretation does not always mean that it could be the correct one, challenges to interpretation is good, as long as real research of the scriptures is done by both parties.

[Whateverist]

Show me where I argue scripture? I only ask those who claim to know. Me reading it, isn't important. You'd just say that my interpretation is wrong because I haven't had the spirit reveal the truths within it...or something like that. It's much easier to just discuss your interpretations of it.

Don't you think hat having an idea of what scripture says would help in a discussion.

A fair point but do you have any idea how mind numbingly boring that would be? You ask too much, far too much.

Sailor, perhaps you should title your next such thread something like "From your impressions of what the bible says.." or just "Based on your uninformed impressions, what do you think the bible would say on X". Oh hell, I just noticed you've worded it better yourself: "Based on your interpretations of bible lore, ...".

Personally I find the character of Satan to be of great interest. He is sort of a promethean figure, standing up for man against an imperious force. I like some of the Mark Twain writings from the point of view of the devil like "A Pen Warmed Up In Hell" and "Letters From Earth". These are really entertaining.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Show me where I argue scripture? I only ask those who claim to know. Me reading it, isn't important. You'd just say that my interpretation is wrong because I haven't had the spirit reveal the truths within it...or something like that. It's much easier to just discuss your interpretations of it.

Don't you think hat having an idea of what scripture says would help in a discussion. The planet we live on was created in one day, this is easy to get from scripture. You can read scripture and get much from it, what I refer to as the surface knowledge. Spiritual meanings come from divine revelation by the Holy Spirit. Non believers can understand a lot from surface knowledge, especially salvation, God made this the simplest part of the scriptures to understand so the simplest minds can see God's gift. When I say people have a wrong interpretation is when they take a verse give it an interpretation without other supporting scripture. It's irritating to have someone who uses unsupported scripture to tell me I'm wrong, when I've done the research and found supporting verses, and all they want to do is use a single verse to support an argument and they use the verse wrongly.
Just discussing my interpretation does not always mean that it could be the correct one, challenges to interpretation is good, as long as real research of the scriptures is done by both parties.

Listen, I read lots of books, some take longer to reach the full potential of enjoyment that can be taken from them than others. The thing is, if I'm not getting a grade, I don't give a shit about anyone else's interpretation of them other than mine. You know why? They're just fucking books! There's not a single book in the world I would give the power of controlling my life. If you think I should, tell me why.

If I went to FeciesIsntFood.org and started telling everyone that they should all stop bad mouthing it long enough for them to try it and get the full experience, it would be no more persuasive than your last post. No offense, I'm just telling you I don't eat shit. You're welcome to do anything you like.

[Drich]

[quote='Texas Sailor' pid='479341' dateline='1374097324']
. [quote]
One question, 2 parts:
1) it the devil “tempting” people to rape and murder each other?
[/quote]
The devil tempted eve, and subsequently Adam. The devil tempted/tested Job, the devil tempted/tested Christ. Outside of that I do not know of anyone else the devil personally tempted.

[quote] 2) Would this otherwise take place if it weren’t for Satan[/quote]
The bible does not say he temps us directly. It is by his actions that temptation is known to us.

[quote]
So just to be clear, at some point, Satan had to pitch the idea of Rape and Murder to God, before God decided it was okay for Satan to run around tempting people to do it?
[/quote]
Let's look at the first murder in the death of able by Cain. The devil had nothing to do with his death. Able was killed because his brother was jealous of him. The devil is not responsible for our indivisual sins. The devil simply introduced sin we justify the sins we favor on our own. As he is the father of sin, we too inherit the same death he is slated for.
[quote]
But, Satan displayed that he could choose differently before falling, so he didn’t know better until after he “fell”? Then where’s the harm? I’m confused. Plus, if Satan was able to act against God’s will before falling, then what you are saying doesn’t seem to follow.

[/quote] not sure what your asking nor what your pointing out.

Satan/lucifer knew the difference or had the knowledge of good and evil before the fall. The only ones who did not was Adam and Eve. Seperate rules for angels and men.

[quote]
Ok. I just thought that maybe a God would have more options than a cage. Maybe like that black-hole thing from Man of Steel!
[/quote] the phantom zone?!?! The phantom zone is modeled after hell.



[quote]
Oh that fall. I was asking about how long it took for God to create earth. [/quote] 6 days on the 7th He rested.

[quote] Did he do it simultaneously while casting out Satan, so he’d have a prison for him, or was it like an after-thought? [/quote] satan fell some where between the completion of creation and the fall of man. There could be a trillion years between the seventh day and the fall of man. We do not know when that happened.

Satan was sent here to give us choice/the ability to choose God or ourselves. Fore without satan free will biblically described free will would not exist. Because without satan there is only God's expressed will.

[quote]
Like, Adam wandering around Earth, fine and dandy, and then God sends Satan there? Then Satan starts fucking up everything?
[/quote]what satan did was apart of the plan, so we could choose to either be with God or separated from Him for eternity.

[Godscreated]

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Don't you think hat having an idea of what scripture says would help in a discussion. The planet we live on was created in one day, this is easy to get from scripture. You can read scripture and get much from it, what I refer to as the surface knowledge. Spiritual meanings come from divine revelation by the Holy Spirit. Non believers can understand a lot from surface knowledge, especially salvation, God made this the simplest part of the scriptures to understand so the simplest minds can see God's gift. When I say people have a wrong interpretation is when they take a verse give it an interpretation without other supporting scripture. It's irritating to have someone who uses unsupported scripture to tell me I'm wrong, when I've done the research and found supporting verses, and all they want to do is use a single verse to support an argument and they use the verse wrongly.
Just discussing my interpretation does not always mean that it could be the correct one, challenges to interpretation is good, as long as real research of the scriptures is done by both parties.

---

Listen, I read lots of books, some take longer to reach the full potential of enjoyment that can be taken from them than others. The thing is, if I'm not getting a grade, I don't give a shit about anyone else's interpretation of them other than mine. You know why? They're just fucking books! There's not a single book in the world I would give the power of controlling my life. If you think I should, tell me why.

If I went to FeciesIsntFood.org and started telling everyone that they should all stop bad mouthing it long enough for them to try it and get the full experience, it would be no more persuasive than your last post. No offense, I'm just telling you I don't eat shit. You're welcome to do anything you like.

Do you reinterpret math, sciences, history are these just books that have no bearing on your life. The only thing I was getting at was if a person wants to argue the scriptures one should be familiar with them, and it was you who said that you wanted to hear our interpretations of scripture.
If that's all you're interested in then fine, but don't tell us we're wrong, unless you read them and a little study wouldn't hurt either. When I first came to this site people told me to be careful because many atheist know the Bible well, I've yet to find the first one.

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Don't you think hat having an idea of what scripture says would help in a discussion.

A fair point but do you have any idea how mind numbingly boring that would be? You ask too much, far too much.

I bet you never considered that creationist think that evolution is mind numbing and boring, I actually find the Bible to be very interesting from many perspectives.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Do you reinterpret math, sciences, history are these just books that have no bearing on your life. The only thing I was getting at was if a person wants to argue the scriptures one should be familiar with them, and it was you who said that you wanted to hear our interpretations of scripture.
If that's all you're interested in then fine, but don't tell us we're wrong, unless you read them and a little study wouldn't hurt either. When I first came to this site people told me to be careful because many atheist know the Bible well, I've yet to find the first one.

Again,you misunderstand. When did I tell you that your interpretations are wrong? When discussing whether or not Christianity is worth considering as a credible belief, I can make my decision based on the interpretation you offer me. Right or wrong really can't be shown either way. I never said your interpretation was wrong. It's just an absurd thing to believe from my perspective. My thinking that has nothing to do with my interpretation of the bible, its completely based on the interpretations of you and other Christians. The things you say and the things you believe from that book are enough for me to feel pretty good about my decision to reject Christianity. I don't have to read a single page of the bible to know that.