Skeptics view of Genesis

[themonkeyman]

Hi Folks,

Took me a few days to do this. Please feel free to add your own conclusions. I myself will probably re-write it at some point but here's the problems / issues and down right weird things that happened in Genesis.

Its 11 pages long but I hope it helps a young de-converter follow my path of De-Conversion. Its how to look at the bible while completely forgetting about the newer books until you get to them. This means that I am writing as it is not as people generations from then said how it is.

Enjoy,

The next book is Exodus.

Genesis

[Captain Colostomy]

If this is a catharsis for you, then have at it. But you realize this has been done before, yes?

[Drich]

Hi Folks,

Took me a few days to do this. Please feel free to add your own conclusions. I myself will probably re-write it at some point but here's the problems / issues and down right weird things that happened in Genesis.

Its 11 pages long but I hope it helps a young de-converter follow my path of De-Conversion. Its how to look at the bible while completely forgetting about the newer books until you get to them. This means that I am writing as it is not as people generations from then said how it is.

Enjoy,

The next book is Exodus.

Genesis

Lets divide it up into sections.

Genesis

Genesis 1 Questions:

 Why are the two running orders of creation incompatible?

They 'seem incompatible' because you are not allowing for traditional Hebrew writing/accounting style. We in modern times in the west document everything chronologically. In ancient Hebrew culture the way one accounted an event was to first give an overview highlighting all of the major points and then come back and fill in the details.

-or- is it your belief that the guy who wrote genesis 1 forgot what he wrote in genesis 1 when he started on genesis 2?

You've got to remember this book was written in a very different time in a very different language. when reading it in English know you are reading a literal translation. Meaning very little explaination or interpretation has been incorporated into the pages of the book. It is has been left up to the reader to seek out a deeper understanding. That is why 'the church' durning the dark ages took the bible out of a known and readable language and placed it in the hands of those who knew the history and culture in which it came. Even though the intentions may have been good it back fired on them triggering the 'dark ages of the Church.'



Why does genesis feel the need to pick that the people were naked.

Nakedness here represents an innocents or purity. To not know one is naked means to not be aware of a self serving sexual desire.

Genesis 3 Questions:

 Why did God let the serpent trick eve when God knows everything?

God's primary motivation was not to preserve a perpetual eden, but to provide the opportunity for man to choose or have the opportunity to choose a will outside of God's own expressed will.

God wanted us to have the ablity too choose.



God said to both that they must not eat or touch fruit from the tree or they will surely die –

But they did not die they lived over 900 years?

They lived "Chay" I believe is the Hebrew word, which translates to a life sustained by water or mortal life. where as before they lived eternally As the tree of life was apart of the Garden as well. (Which is my argument as to why Evolution is possiable. Because we do not know how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden before being expelled. We only know how long They lived after the Falll of Man.

 Why was it only when Adam ate the fruit that their eyes were opened why not when eve ate it.

Birds and bees stuff here. What happens to a man when he sees a naked woman? Before this physical change in Adam Eve saw no reason to look at Adam differently.

 Yet again why they now are worried they are naked?

Ever had a dream about giving a speech with no cloths on? Or going to school with no cloths?
Why was that a big deal?

God talks to himself in the garden?

The Dialog is a way to communicates the thoughts of God to the Reader.

And if God cannot be in the presence of sin why was he in the Garden with Adam and Eve?

Sin is not kryptonite, God chooses to separate Himself from sin.

 Why did God ask Adam where he was – Does he not know everything?

To denote a Change in Adam's state. The Adam God knew just died.



Why did God ask Adam who told him he was naked and who gave him the fruit from the tree?

Why does a parent ask their child "who ate all of the cookies" when their is cookie all over the face of their small child?

 God said Adam and Eve came from dust and to dust they will return – No hell?

No.



Who is God talking too – ‘Man has become like one of us’ – God sounds very insecure?!

God the Spirit and God the Son.



Where is the Garden of Eden today if there is a Cherubim there?

Somewhere Under the Sands of the deserts of the middle east. and Yes.

[Captain Colostomy]

Ah, hell...I thought I heard tin crash and smelled shit...

[Minimalist]

Poor Drippy. Still trying to make stew out of a potful of shit.

[Drich]

Genesis 4 Questions:

 Why did God look on favour on Abel but not on Cain?

Because Abel did or was more like what God wanted man to be.

That’s not fair that’s evidence of God turning one against the other?!

God rewards those who do as they are told. Cain turned on his brother because he was too proud to change who he was.

 God yet again asks where Abel is. – Then asks ‘What have you done?’ – Seriously God you sound clueless.

Same answer. God gives 'us' an opportunity to come clean.

 Cain worries that people will kill him? – Who there are only 3 people in existence.

Ah, no. There are only three people you are aware of.



Cain said he would be a restless wanderer then in a few verses later he goes and settle in

Nod and built a city? How could he be restless!!!

Guilt, follows a man despite how he choose to surround himself.

Who was Cain’s wife? Lamech had two wives? How is this possible when Cain only had a son? And subsequently the only Girl recorded after 7 Generations of men. So they all slept with Cain’s Wife?

An un named woman



Cain built a city and named it after his son (Population 3)  Enoch had a child – With who? His Mother?

Here is where my throey comes in.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-14190.html



Where did Tubal-Cain find the knowledge of making tools out of bronze?

From Monkey Man, (Man who live and evolved outside the garden.)



Enoch walked with God? I again thought God could not be in the Presence of Evil?

Again, not kryptonite, but a choice.



God took Enoch away? Where To?

To Heaven without having to feel the sting of death.




The flood occurred less than 1,656 from creation of the world why did God want to obliterate everything so early? That’s 726 years since Adam died that God decided to destroy everything! Also that is technically 1 generation back then!

Very good observation. Working from my theory, God was (with in one generation) destroying all other versions of man. Meaning the only legacy after the flood would be man with a soul/Man made in the image of God. (No more monkey men)

Who are the Sons of God?

Decendants of Adam, (Man made in the image of God/Man with a soul.)



Who are the Nephilim?

'Giants'

 Why did Mans Wickedness? What made them wicked surely there is a reason? It seems to be something occurring over a period of time? How do we determine what is wicked?

The bible does not say, but we can be assured that it does not happen today. Appearently it is something that happens between Man and the giants that lived them.



God’s heart was filled with pain?! So why did he decide to destroy everything? He was going to destroy innocent children? Innocent Animals? Why?

To create a bottle neck where only the decendants of Adam could proceed through. (To create or shape a world the we currently enjoy and are the lords over.)

 How did Noah find favour in the eyes of the Lord? Why was Noah blameless and righteous?

Noah's righteousness was found in his character.
What are the details of his character? the bible does not say specifically, but we can build a picture based on what God's law says.

 God commanded Noah to build an Ark and gave only a little 18inch window!

So?

 So how on EARTH did Noah fit every single animal in existence onto the Ark? There are over

10 million animals? Did he have Penguins? Did he have Polar Bears? Did he have every type of Animal and Spider? Every type of Plant? For the size of the boat it’s rather small not to mention the weight?! Then he had to bring every type of food too? Wow!

This is a very common mistake people make when looking at Noah's Ark. Most see it as a tale of logistics, on how 'man' can go about to save the world from a crazy angry God.

When in fact Noah's Ark is an account of How God used a man's faith to justify saving a whole planet. The faith to build an impossiably large boat when there was no precedent or cause to do so. The faith to gather and to do every thing he was told down to the smallest detail.

Because Noah was willing to do all of these things God inturn 'filled' the gaps or provided any of the needs or provisions noah or his passengers needed.

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 How did Noah know the gender of every animal and how did he know if it was clean or unclean?

God told him (Pardon the obvious answer, but what else are you asking here?) Why wouldn't God tell Him?

 Wait we are now told that he is commanded to take 7 of every kind of Animal?

Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. 2 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth.



So God seems to have given 7 days to get every animal into the ark?! That averages 15 animals per second or 992 per hour?!  Noah had 3 sons in one year?!

4 For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” 5 And Noah did according to all that the Lord commanded him. 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth.

Noah was in the ark for 7 days after the last animal was load up. (Maybe that is how long it took for the pitch on the door to cure)



God said he would send the flood waters for 40 days and 40 nights then we hear the waters flooded the earth for 150 days?

It was piled on for 40 days and nights, after which it took 150 days to recede.

Genesis 8

 Why did God ‘Remember’ Noah? It sounds like God forgot – ‘Oh who’s in that boat?!’  If God wiped the face of the earth where did the Olive Leaf come from?

Do you not know how seeds work?

 We have absolutely ‘NO’ Proof there were flood waters! Because it says ‘When Noah removed the covering from the ark and saw the surface of the ground was dry’ this means for 7 months he did not see outside?! Bit convenient lol.

ever been in a boat in a storm? let alone one that lasted 40 days and nights... Noah knew he was on water.

 Ok so Noah killed some clean animals – Lovely! The only two species in existence and he kills one of them!

Maybe this is why we do not have any more unicorns.

Genesis 9

 Children are now apparently born Evil according to God? Why are Children Evil?!

where did you read that in Genesis 9?

 God said never again will he destroy everything!

by water (We still have fire Ice and desolation/absents of water)



God says he will remember the Covenant when he sees a rainbow – So I am going to guess the earth is Random and God has no control whatsoever?!

why would you assume that from this passage?

 Why did Noah Get Drunk? I guess Mass Genocide will turn anyone to the drink!

 Noah cursed Canaan for what? He told his brothers to cover his drunken dad!

Proably because he wanted to. Being stuck on a boat with every living creature for an extended period of time would make anyone a little 'thirsty.'

Genesis 10

 Before Genesis 9:11 we are told that Japtheties / Hamites and Semites have their own language and then suddenly everyone has their own language? How is this possible?

How did anyone have their own language after babble? God gave it to them... I do not see the problem you do

I think we will stop here and wait for and address any follow ups before we proceed.

[Drich]

Genesis 11

 People in Shinar decided to build a City to the Sky and believed in Unity?

Why do you assume they believe in Unity?
The bible does not mention unity. Just because people get together and build something does not mean they worship or even believe in unity. Ask yourself what towers were used for back then. They served a purpose. That purpose not being 'unity' as we currently know and use the word.

 God then decided to scatter these people because he thought that nothing they plan to do is impossible?

Read the story again. The building of the tower itself was not God wanted to discourage. It was the collaboration of these particular men.

6 And the Lord said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.
God knew what was on the horizon and it was not consistant with How He wanted the world to work out.

Genesis 12

 God blessed the whole world through Abraham?!

Yes, in that through the Jewish line came a savior, that would free both Jew and Gentile from sin.



Why if God blessed Abraham did Abraham have to get Sarai to pretend she was his sister?

Like you he did not understand the nature of his blessing.

So Abraham lied to Egyptian officials?

yes



Why did Abraham go to Egypt when there as famine?

why did people move out of the 'bread basket' of the United States to the larger cities in the coastal areas, durning the great dust bowl of the 1930?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

 Why did God punish Pharaoh for taking Abrahams wife when as far as Pharaoh was concerned it was Abrahams Sister

To send Pharaoh a message he could understand with out any interpretational errors to the intention and authority of God.

Abraham was treated well for her sake so what the fuck is God doing?!

Communicating to a man who thinks himself to be a god. Putting god/pharaoh through the paces let pharaoh know he was nothing next to Abraham's God.

 At least the Pharaoh let Abraham keep everything but why did Abraham use Deception?

He got scared and did not trust God yet. This story shows how we all have to learn through our mistakes to trust God.

Genesis 13

 Abraham made off from Egypt with Livestock / Silver and Gold so basically Abraham used

Deception and then God punished Pharaoh for it?!

No, your twisting the facts of the story.

again Pharaoh fancied himself to be a god. God showed him he wasn't. It was through this 'punishment' that Pharaoh learned that Abraham's god was the real deal. Which Pharaoh saw and tried to buy favor through the stuff he gave Abraham.



Abraham calls Lot his Brother when Lot was his nephew why?

Your misrepresenting Scripture:
8 So Abram said to Lot, “Please let there be no strife between you and me, and between my herdsmen and your herdsmen; for we are brethren.

Taken from the NKJV. Not brother, 'brethren' Meaning related, of the same blood.



What is the Garden of the Lord?

Eden

How can the Jordan be ‘Like’ It? When God wiped it out at the Flood and that Lot was not around at the time of the Flood nor at the time of Eden?

"Like it" means to be similar to, not a copy of nor the orginal. To be like God's Garden means to be lush and green.

Even more so the Cherubim was blocking the Garden of Eden so how could anyone see it?

How do you know of the Garden of Eden? Have you seen it or did you first hear someone speak of it?

 What were the wicked things the people of Sodom were doing?

Wicked stuff God did not like.

Because they wanted to rape two male visitors/Angels Lot had @ his house many speculate that their great wickedness was that many were gay. I think it went much deeper than that.

Genesis 16

 God allowed Polygamy and also for Abraham to have two wives why?

Because it was not a sin.



Why was Abraham so old that is impossible?

Because He lived a long time. When one lives a long time they become old.

Genesis 17

 God and Abraham formed a Covenant. Abraham agreed to let the Lord be his God.

 Gods Covenant with Abraham is everlasting why?

Because God said it would be.



Why did god choose sexual genitalia of all things?

Many have said that it has to do with hygene, but I tend to think that this was a sign or 'mark' that no one would be willing to duplicate on a farse. to go through the pain and or later (in adults males looking to infiltrate the Jews) to spy on them at the risk of death or dismemberment from infection.

Did he do this to Cain to stop people killing him?

The bible does not say

Genesis 18

 God was walking again on earth with 2 other people? I thought God does not walk on earth and cannot be in the presence of evil.

Again sin is not Kryptonite. (wait to you get to the book of Job.)



How did Abraham know what God looked like?

"the Sheep know the sound of the shepard's voice."



Where was God Going?

To see Abraham.

Why were their feet dirty?

Because when you wear sandels in the desert, and walk around your feet get dirty.

Why did God need something to eat?

Because He/They were hungry? They wanted to share a meal with Abraham? They wanted to have Abraham's Words, acts and deeds recorded for the rest of the Jews to see how one is to treat a travler... you choose.




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

Why is God being Ignorant and downright rude ‘IIs anything too hard for the Lord’ Sarah did not know that this was God having a feed, such a remark is rather rude.

It is because of Sarah's reaction that we know such a remark is offensive to God. Someone had to be the first.

 Why did God as a question about hiding what he is going to do to Sodom and Gomorrah?

this verbal dialog was to let the reader know how close Abraham was to God.

And who was he talking too? Why would a God even ask a question?

God is a title and not a indivisual's name. As in: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. 3 indivisuals share one title, God.



God had to go down to Sodom and Gomorrah to see what they had done wrong?

God's does not 'have to do anything.' God does what God wants to do. If God went that is because God wanted to go.



Abraham seamed to try and convince God not to kill people by using Deception yet again?

I do not see any deception in what Abraham said. Only compromise.



Why did God say if he Finds 50 people does he not know everything?

God knew the outcome so He played along with Abraham's what if Game.

Genesis 19

 Where did God go after this?

Home

We are suddenly hearing that its only two angels.

Indeed.

 Why did Lot live in Sodom – I thought after being taken away and all the Wickedness that he would have learned better?

Lot had been made a city official. with all of his sheeps and goats he was a big shot in Sodom.



Could it be deduced that the reason Abraham reasoned with God is because Lot was in

Sodom and not because he actually cared about people.

possiably.

 Why did lot live in a city of Gays?

because he did not want to live in a tent. He wanted things like all men want things



Why did lot call the Gays his friends?

Because again in that city he was made a big man. Would you hate those who make you powerful and rich?

 Why did the angels ask if Lot had family surely they would have done their research? Even so they even told lot to go tell his family to leave? Surely a God who can do everything could do this a lot quicker?

Why would quicker be better?



How did God confirm the outcry because he said that he needed to see for himself because from what I read he the Outcry and Actions are different and he does not seem to be able to see it all from heaven?

No, because you as a reader need confirmation of the evil of this place.

 Why does God seam to show favouritism with Lot and Abrahams Family?

Because of the 'blessing and covenant' you were talking about a while back.



[Something completely different]

.............

[Drich]

Why did Lot have to reason with the Angels that he could not make it to the Mountains again this does not make any sense?

try a different version ESV:

18 But Lot said to the two men, “Sirs, please don’t force me to run so far! 19 You have been very kind to me, your servant. You have been very kind to save me, but I cannot run all the way to the mountains. What if I am too slow and something happens? I will be killed! 20 Look, there is a very small town near here. Let me run to that town. I can run there and be safe.”

21 The angel said to Lot, “Very well, I’ll let you do that. I will not destroy that town. 22 But run there quickly. I cannot destroy Sodom until you are safely in that town.” (That town is named Zoar,[b] because it is a small town.)




The angel then says he cannot do anything to Sodom until Lot gets to it? But yet the angel also told him to hurry which lead Lot to reason with him? (PARADOX?)

No. The angel did not want anyone else to leave or enter the doomed city

 How do they know its Sulphur?

sulphur has a very distinct smell (Farts)

 Why did God destroy Gomorrah? The angels did not mention it until after the fact?

Neighboring cities back then had to live in Harmony, meaning they had to have similar customs/social views.

 Why did God destroy innocent children and animals? Oh yeah that’s right because he likes it!

Who would care for them? is it not better that they return to a loving Father, than live as orphans that would eventually starve to death?

 No one said that looking back would turn someone to a pillar of salt!

They were all told not to look back.

Even so much that how did they know anything happened to the Cities if no one could see?

27 Early the next morning, Abraham got up and went to the place where he stood before the Lord. 28 Abraham looked down into the valley toward the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. He saw clouds of smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.



Why sulfur that surely wouldn’t burn anything unless the oxygen is heated?

Sulfur melts to a blood red liquid form @ 250*F and then burns @ 1500*F It also does not need oxygen to burn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uc6DcxIj4U
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur



Why is lot now afraid of staying in Zoar?

He does not want to go back to living in tents, he likes city life.



So Incest is also OK in the bible?

no. Lot lived in a time where God's law was not written down yet.

Genesis 20



Yet again Abraham using Deception what the fuck?

Still does not trust God completely yet.



God yet again punished Abimelech that is fucked up.

Only if He did not do what He was told.

 God highlights he can keep people from sinning.

where?

 God says that if he does not Give Abrahams wife back that Abimelech will die? And he has to apologise to Abraham!

Yes. Because the fear being if he knew Sarah was married he would have killed Abraham.

 Abraham confirms Sarah is his wife and his sister? Yet at the same time previously Abraham says to Sarah when entering Egypt to pretend she is his sister?  Abimelech gave Abraham stuff for lying?

where does it say that?

[themonkeyman]

Hey Drich,

I could challenge you on every single point. Perhaps sum all your views up in a word document? As this forum is not the best place to answer 148 questions.

Considering thats only one book of the bible lol.

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Drich,

Can I also ask not to give your 'View' or 'Opinion' and only use Scripture to confirm or deny my points. Giving your opinion is not Scriptural If I am to believe the bible is true in some form I need the bible to back itself up. Any external views and opinions in essence show that the bible cannot be true otherwise there would be no need for re-interpretation.