Christians, why are you hear (If you want to convert atheists read this)

[Drich]

Thus far, I've seen no god leading no one.... only people claiming to know what god wants leading other people who believe in these people's claims.

What does it look like to have God lead someone? Or rather what are you looking for when you say you see 'no God leading no one?'

I see a person who wrote a book detailing the methodology to attain contact with the divine..... methodology which relies heavily on self-delusion and confirmation bias...

Self delusion will only get someone so far. We have been instructed to constantly Ask, constantly seek, and to continually knock which will quickly destroy any self delusion.

However, many people have since accepted such methodology and claim to have acquired such contact with the divine. In my view, all those people (you included?) have fallen victims of the self-delusion mechanism inherent on this methodology... and just cannot see it, even if shown.
Powerful stuff, your brain, huh?

So how does one seperate self delusion from the devinne interaction?

To be placed in one impossiable situation after another, each more desprate than the last, to be broken down well past any hope of any meaningful recovery from self or anyone who wants to try and help. I can recount everything that happened to me, but ultimatly it will be meaningless to anyone accept me. Why? Because God looks to 'proove' Himself to each of us through a 'proofing' process. That way our Faith will be without doubt. Each one of us must seek this 'proof' on our own, otherwise it can be dismissed.

[Ryantology]

In EVERY instance on this website that one of you points to a time where you believe you have 'a/s/ked' I have been able to simply point out that you infact did not. 95% of the time you all stop knocking when your time lines are not met...

Of course you can. That's why it's a cop-out.

To knock as outlined in Luke 11 means to knock and continue to do so beyond all doubt and reason.

Doubles as a perfect description of insanity.

Look at the man in the parable again. Look at the time of night he was knocking. this man knocked in a time where there should have been no reasonable expectation to receive anything from his neighbor. yet he kept on knocking.

a/s/k until you get an answer, you decide to believe you have been given an answer, or you die waiting. Either way, it's the petitioner's fault if he never gets one. Obvious fucking cop-out.

With you guys you point to your time growing up in the church as a time spent knocking even though you were just going to church because your parent dragged you there. That's not knocking thats just being dragged to church.

When I sought God, it was as an adult and mostly on my own initiative. I was indifferent to religion as a child.

---

If the President wanted to have a sit down dinner with you, but gave you a list of things you must comply with in order to have this dinner would you consider his list law, or some form of social morality? No of course not. His list is a simple list of requirements that one must meet in order to have an audience with him.

Explain the distinction between God's list of requirements and God's laws.

[Minimalist]

So how does one seperate self delusion from the devinne interaction?

If you can't provide any evidence for any god...let alone the one you think exists...it seems quite simple. It's all self-delusion - or confirmation bias, if you prefer.

[pocaracas]

Thus far, I've seen no god leading no one.... only people claiming to know what god wants leading other people who believe in these people's claims.

What does it look like to have God lead someone? Or rather what are you looking for when you say you see 'no God leading no one?'

How should I know how it looks? You're the one who claims there is a god to begin with!
What I'm looking for?... something out of the ordinary, something which is not people leading people, nor people leading themselves...

I see a person who wrote a book detailing the methodology to attain contact with the divine..... methodology which relies heavily on self-delusion and confirmation bias...

Self delusion will only get someone so far. We have been instructed to constantly Ask, constantly seek, and to continually knock which will quickly destroy any self delusion.

Of course the great almighty went out of its way to give you a few coincidences only to have you follow it....
In the meantime, I and many others have no such coincidences in our lives.... many have died waiting for such coincidences... many are waiting...
If only you didn't require those, maybe it could have saved a few more thousands from malaria somewhere else... or maybe I'd be the one with my set of coincidences which I would... maybe... attribute to a god.

However, many people have since accepted such methodology and claim to have acquired such contact with the divine. In my view, all those people (you included?) have fallen victims of the self-delusion mechanism inherent on this methodology... and just cannot see it, even if shown.
Powerful stuff, your brain, huh?

So how does one seperate self delusion from the devinne interaction?

How indeed?...

To be placed in one impossiable situation after another, each more desprate than the last, to be broken down well past any hope of any meaningful recovery from self or anyone who wants to try and help. I can recount everything that happened to me, but ultimatly it will be meaningless to anyone accept me.

I swear it's the truth that this sort of thing does not happen to most people.
How, then, could most people discern self-delusion from divine interaction?

Why? Because God looks to 'proove' Himself to each of us through a 'proofing' process. That way our Faith will be without doubt. Each one of us must seek this 'proof' on our own, otherwise it can be dismissed.

Well, well, well, each gets their own personal revelation...
But only some 20% of humanity follow the same god as you... has it been doing something wrong with the remaining 80%?
Or are they just as self-deluded?

[Lemonvariable72]

Thus far, I've seen no god leading no one.... only people claiming to know what god wants leading other people who believe in these people's claims.

What does it look like to have God lead someone? Or rather what are you looking for when you say you see 'no God leading no one?'

I see a person who wrote a book detailing the methodology to attain contact with the divine..... methodology which relies heavily on self-delusion and confirmation bias...

Self delusion will only get someone so far. We have been instructed to constantly Ask, constantly seek, and to continually knock which will quickly destroy any self delusion.

However, many people have since accepted such methodology and claim to have acquired such contact with the divine. In my view, all those people (you included?) have fallen victims of the self-delusion mechanism inherent on this methodology... and just cannot see it, even if shown.
Powerful stuff, your brain, huh?

So how does one seperate self delusion from the devinne interaction?

To be placed in one impossiable situation after another, each more desprate than the last, to be broken down well past any hope of any meaningful recovery from self or anyone who wants to try and help. I can recount everything that happened to me, but ultimatly it will be meaningless to anyone accept me. Why? Because God looks to 'proove' Himself to each of us through a 'proofing' process. That way our Faith will be without doubt. Each one of us must seek this 'proof' on our own, otherwise it can be dismissed.

Drich here is the issue i have with your argument. I could take the word god and replace it with allah or zeus and i would still work the exact same way. Ex. Pray to zeus for evidence and he will give it if you pray hard enough.

[Bad Writer]

a/s/k is bullshit because it's not just confined to one religion. If this really was the proscribed way of finding god, then there wouldn't be many sects out there, for a person who truly does a/s/k, as you describe it, Drich, will find the true god. So why the fuck are there Mormons/Methodists/Jehovah's Witnesses/Baptists/Moonies/Born Agains/Non-Demons? It's because it doesn't actually work.

The other problem is that a/s/k is a method found in the Bible. Since the Bible isn't a good source for anything, this method is also bullshit. Drich, without the Bible, would a/s/k still be the method to find god? Would it still work? Probably not to your liking, because then there wouldn't be Christians, and I'm guessing that's just unacceptable to you. Well, people deluding other people is unacceptable to me. Looks like we have a problem here.

[ronedee]

I'm going to put converting atheists into a simple 3 step program
1. Prove there is a god
2. Prove that it is the god of your religion
3. Prove that god is worship worthy, have at it.

1. Prove there is no God.
2.
3.

If #1 is proved, or disproved in your case.... 2&3 are irrevelant.

[Bad Writer]

I'm going to put converting atheists into a simple 3 step program
1. Prove there is a god
2. Prove that it is the god of your religion
3. Prove that god is worship worthy, have at it.

1. Prove there is no God.
2.
3.

If #1 is proved, or disproved in your case.... 2&3 are irrevelant.

You really have no idea what you're doing, do you? It's not up to him to disprove someone else's claim.

Look, if you told me there was an invisible pink unicorn behind me, should I be the one trying to disprove it, or should you be the one trying to prove that it's there? Seriously, until you prove your outrageous claims, I'm going to continue about my business.

[ronedee]

1. Prove there is no God.
2.
3.

If #1 is proved, or disproved in your case.... 2&3 are irrevelant.

You really have no idea what you're doing, do you? It's not up to him to disprove someone else's claim.

Look, if you told me there was an invisible pink unicorn behind me, should I be the one trying to disprove it, or should you be the one trying to prove that it's there? Seriously, until you prove your outrageous claims, I'm going to continue about my business.

I have no obligation to prove anything to you...or anyone else.

I have asked the Lord to reveal Himself to me. He did. You do the same!

Simple!

You have to break eggs to make a La friitata!

[themonkeyman]

Ok I was going to reply to a bunch of people.

First Dirch you opinion is flawed at the core. You say that we say that A/S/K fails because we set it within our 'Timelines' and not on 'Gods'. Lets examine this on a simple level!

Please define God's Timeline - Where in the Bible does it say that God is slow to respond to prayer? Or that he may or may not reply. His Son JESUS said that if you knock it 'Shall Be Opened Unto You' he did not say 'Knock' and I might open if at some point if I can be bothered.

The next problem I have is the fact that I have prayed for many Years to God to introduce me to a Good Christian Woman. 2 Years Ago after 8 years praying I found a Girl I liked - fast forward one year we split up, Why because she was a psycho when you got to know her dark side. So I am now happily going out with a Non Christian - And I tell you this relationship is far better.

So where was God answering prayer - Did he? Sure you will say he did but that means that he is a cruel bastard in that the only woman he gave me is a psycho who cheated on me?

Now come on Drich - You believe in God and God clearly wants you to be happy or to continue believing in him so here's my request.

I need a deposit for a house, I need £5,000 - Can you pray to God that he will get me this money within the next month without interest or strings attached. E.g. £5,000 as an outright gift. Now the thing is it 'HAS' to be a gift that I was not 'EXPECTING'.

The next request if God decides that's too selfish is that I ask that my Step Brother who has Necrobiosis in his leg and will soon die will be cured! He is not a believer in God so that would be enough for God to show me an undescernable miracle and not it happening out of luck.

And the last request.
I ask that God physically feed all those who are hungry in the world today. That they do not neeed to eat for at least 48 hours because they will be full on the glory of 'GOD'.

They are selfless if you prove them to me with your 'Close' Relationship with God surely to prevent me going to hell God would do these 3 miracles in a heart beat. So I leave my eternal destination on your Shoulders Dritch and also on those of your savour 'Jesus'

'Dear Lord and Father in Heaven - I pray that you will remove the pain / the suffering and the torment that I may experience in the next life. Lord I put my full trust in your servant Dritch who will be the one who will bring me back to the fold. Father I pray that you do miracles not for me but for him so that either way one of us is more fulfilled. I pray this and ask it in the name of he who is Holy, Jesus Christ. Amen'