Christians, why are you hear (If you want to convert atheists read this)

[Lemonvariable72]

I don't know where you learned psychology from, but this is simply wrong. This is not how the human mind works.

If any of your conclusions rest upon this assumption, then those conclusions are unsound.

Then why have so many of you fallen away from the faiths of your fathers?
(I'm not speaking to one person alpo I'm speaking of those who are members here that grew up in Christianity, and have fallen away.)

Because there is a whole lot of question that your god doesn't stand up to.
1. read my sig
2. If god is all powerful and can create anythng, can he make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?
3. Why did he create satan knowing he rebel?
4. Why did he put the tree of good and evil in the garden knowing that eve or adam could never follow his instruction beause he failed to teach them right from wrong, and then did nt even know what death was.
5.How can a being defined as love torment people for eternity, because of thought crimes during a finite life?
6. Where did canes wife come from?
lets see if you can handle those because I have more.

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='502174' dateline='1378308213']If the President wanted to have a sit down dinner with you, but gave you a list of things you must comply with in order to have this dinner would you consider his list law, or some form of social morality? No of course not. His list is a simple list of requirements that one must meet in order to have an audience with him.

Explain the distinction between God's list of requirements and God's laws.
[/quote]
I did that in the president analogy above.

If the president has certain criteria that has to be met inorder for you to have an audience with him, are these requirements considered to be national law? Are they considered to be on par with our child labor laws, or our laws against slavery? Or are these simply prerequisites one must meet inorder to have a sit down with the president?

The same is true for God. A/S/K is not law. A/S/K is what one must do for Proof, in the way of receiving the Holy Spirit. Fore what better 'proof' of God than God the Holy Spirit interceding and interacting with you? Guiding you the hard times and giving you hope when you should not have any. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not a command, nor law. It's a gift offered to us, one we all do not have to have or even completely understand in order to simply be saved.

---

[quote='Drich' pid='502454' dateline='1378351138']
Then why have so many of you fallen away from the faiths of your fathers?
(I'm not speaking to one person alpo I'm speaking of those who are members here that grew up in Christianity, and have fallen away.)

It was rhetorical. Questions like the ones that follow are the reason that 'self delusion' is not a viable diagnosis for the whole of any religion. There are far too many people asking far too many questions inorder for self delusion to be the one size fits all diagnosis some make it out to be.

Because there is a whole lot of question that your god doesn't stand up to.
1. read my sig

Don't get sigs on a tablet.

2. If god is all powerful and can create anythng, can he make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?

Only if He wanted to.
God's description of Himself is not all powerful. It is alpha and omega the beginning and end of all things. Which means He has the power and authority to choose whom ever He wants to be, and as such is not bound by some silly doctrine of man that can be used to create a paradox.
If God wants to make a rock so big... He can, if He does not want to, then He does not have to. Again that what it means to be alpha and omega. In short it means one is not bound to a title or perception to act or behave a certain way.

3. Why did he create satan knowing he rebel?

So, Satan could offer us Choice in the Garden, and though out the reign of man.

4. Why did he put the tree of good and evil in the garden knowing that eve or adam could never follow his instruction

actually the opposite was true. Adam followed the Instructions of God for an undisclosed amount of time. It could have been trillions of years. We don't know exactly. We do know it only came to an end when satan was allowed to tempt eve.

beause he failed to teach them right from wrong, and then did nt even know what death was.

Taking from the tree of knowledge was not about right and wrong it was about life and death. To say Adam did not know about death is foolishness. Nothing in the bible says anything besides God, Adam and Eve were immortal in the garden.

5.How can a being defined as love torment people for eternity, because of thought crimes during a finite life?

How do you know 'we' are tortured for eternity? The bible says Hell is eternal, and that Satan's punishment in Hell will be eternal, but it says nothing to the effect that we in Hell will be. Matter of fact when Christ warns of us of Hell He warns that it will consume us. Not sustain us forever.

6. Where did canes wife come
lets see if you can handle those because I have more.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-14190.ht...=Evolution


Oh, no the promise of more questions...


Bring it sport, lets see what you've got. Promise me one thing, you do your worst, and at the end when I answer YOUR 50 best questions, you make one of two declarations. One, your right I was wrong and I will take another look at God. Two, even though I can not answer your points I still refuse to acknowledge God because by my FAITH and FAITH alone in my peers and 'education' I seem to have the freedom to live my life how I want to this way, and simply refuse to acknowledge God as a point of pride.

[Lemonvariable72]

Explain the distinction between God's list of requirements and God's laws.

I did that in the president analogy above.

If the president has certain criteria that has to be met inorder for you to have an audience with him, are these requirements considered to be national law? Are they considered to be on par with our child labor laws, or our laws against slavery? Or are these simply prerequisites one must meet inorder to have a sit down with the president?

The same is true for God. A/S/K is not law. A/S/K is what one must do for Proof, in the way of receiving the Holy Spirit. Fore what better 'proof' of God than God the Holy Spirit interceding and interacting with you? Guiding you the hard times and giving you hope when you should not have any. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not a command, nor law. It's a gift offered to us, one we all do not have to have or even completely understand in order to simply be saved.

---

[quote='Drich' pid='502454' dateline='1378351138']
Then why have so many of you fallen away from the faiths of your fathers?
(I'm not speaking to one person alpo I'm speaking of those who are members here that grew up in Christianity, and have fallen away.)

It was rhetorical. Questions like the ones that follow are the reason that 'self delusion' is not a viable diagnosis for the whole of any religion. There are far too many people asking far too many questions inorder for self delusion to be the one size fits all diagnosis some make it out to be.

Because there is a whole lot of question that your god doesn't stand up to.
1. read my sig

Don't get sigs on a tablet.

2. If god is all powerful and can create anythng, can he make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?

Only if He wanted to.
God's description of Himself is not all powerful. It is alpha and omega the beginning and end of all things. Which means He has the power and authority to choose whom ever He wants to be, and as such is not bound by some silly doctrine of man that can be used to create a paradox.
If God wants to make a rock so big... He can, if He does not want to, then He does not have to. Again that what it means to be alpha and omega. In short it means one is not bound to a title or perception to act or behave a certain way.

3. Why did he create satan knowing he rebel?

So, Satan could offer us Choice in the Garden, and though out the reign of man.

4. Why did he put the tree of good and evil in the garden knowing that eve or adam could never follow his instruction

actually the opposite was true. Adam followed the Instructions of God for an undisclosed amount of time. It could have been trillions of years. We don't know exactly. We do know it only came to an end when satan was allowed to tempt eve.

beause he failed to teach them right from wrong, and then did nt even know what death was.

Taking from the tree of knowledge was not about right and wrong it was about life and death. To say Adam did not know about death is foolishness. Nothing in the bible says anything besides God, Adam and Eve were immortal in the garden.

5.How can a being defined as love torment people for eternity, because of thought crimes during a finite life?

How do you know 'we' are tortured for eternity? The bible says Hell is eternal, and that Satan's punishment in Hell will be eternal, but it says nothing to the effect that we in Hell will be. Matter of fact when Christ warns of us of Hell He warns that it will consume us. Not sustain us forever.

6. Where did canes wife come
lets see if you can handle those because I have more.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-14190.ht...=Evolution


Oh, no the promise of more questions...


Bring it sport, lets see what you've got. Promise me one thing, you do your worst, and at the end when I answer YOUR 50 best questions, you make one of two declarations. One, your right I was wrong and I will take another look at God. Two, even though I can not answer your points I still refuse to acknowledge God because by my FAITH and FAITH alone in my peers and 'education' I seem to have the freedom to live my life how I want to this way, and simply refuse to acknowledge God as a point of pride.

Hah so there you have it. According to your abswer to 3 god is evil.

---

Explain the distinction between God's list of requirements and God's laws.

I did that in the president analogy above.

If the president has certain criteria that has to be met inorder for you to have an audience with him, are these requirements considered to be national law? Are they considered to be on par with our child labor laws, or our laws against slavery? Or are these simply prerequisites one must meet inorder to have a sit down with the president?

The same is true for God. A/S/K is not law. A/S/K is what one must do for Proof, in the way of receiving the Holy Spirit. Fore what better 'proof' of God than God the Holy Spirit interceding and interacting with you? Guiding you the hard times and giving you hope when you should not have any. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not a command, nor law. It's a gift offered to us, one we all do not have to have or even completely understand in order to simply be saved.

---

[quote='Drich' pid='502454' dateline='1378351138']
Then why have so many of you fallen away from the faiths of your fathers?
(I'm not speaking to one person alpo I'm speaking of those who are members here that grew up in Christianity, and have fallen away.)

It was rhetorical. Questions like the ones that follow are the reason that 'self delusion' is not a viable diagnosis for the whole of any religion. There are far too many people asking far too many questions inorder for self delusion to be the one size fits all diagnosis some make it out to be.

Because there is a whole lot of question that your god doesn't stand up to.
1. read my sig

Don't get sigs on a tablet.

2. If god is all powerful and can create anythng, can he make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?

Only if He wanted to.
God's description of Himself is not all powerful. It is alpha and omega the beginning and end of all things. Which means He has the power and authority to choose whom ever He wants to be, and as such is not bound by some silly doctrine of man that can be used to create a paradox.
If God wants to make a rock so big... He can, if He does not want to, then He does not have to. Again that what it means to be alpha and omega. In short it means one is not bound to a title or perception to act or behave a certain way.

3. Why did he create satan knowing he rebel?

So, Satan could offer us Choice in the Garden, and though out the reign of man.

4. Why did he put the tree of good and evil in the garden knowing that eve or adam could never follow his instruction

actually the opposite was true. Adam followed the Instructions of God for an undisclosed amount of time. It could have been trillions of years. We don't know exactly. We do know it only came to an end when satan was allowed to tempt eve.

beause he failed to teach them right from wrong, and then did nt even know what death was.

Taking from the tree of knowledge was not about right and wrong it was about life and death. To say Adam did not know about death is foolishness. Nothing in the bible says anything besides God, Adam and Eve were immortal in the garden.

5.How can a being defined as love torment people for eternity, because of thought crimes during a finite life?

How do you know 'we' are tortured for eternity? The bible says Hell is eternal, and that Satan's punishment in Hell will be eternal, but it says nothing to the effect that we in Hell will be. Matter of fact when Christ warns of us of Hell He warns that it will consume us. Not sustain us forever.

6. Where did canes wife come
lets see if you can handle those because I have more.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-14190.ht...=Evolution


Oh, no the promise of more questions...


Bring it sport, lets see what you've got. Promise me one thing, you do your worst, and at the end when I answer YOUR 50 best questions, you make one of two declarations. One, your right I was wrong and I will take another look at God. Two, even though I can not answer your points I still refuse to acknowledge God because by my FAITH and FAITH alone in my peers and 'education' I seem to have the freedom to live my life how I want to this way, and simply refuse to acknowledge God as a point of pride.

There you have, according to your answer to three your god is immoral.

[Bad Writer]

Too bad faith is the most dishonest position you can take. It's a real shame that you have to use dishonesty as a fall-back when presented with verifiable facts.

[Lemonvariable72]

Explain the distinction between God's list of requirements and God's laws.

I did that in the president analogy above.

If the president has certain criteria that has to be met inorder for you to have an audience with him, are these requirements considered to be national law? Are they considered to be on par with our child labor laws, or our laws against slavery? Or are these simply prerequisites one must meet inorder to have a sit down with the president?

The same is true for God. A/S/K is not law. A/S/K is what one must do for Proof, in the way of receiving the Holy Spirit. Fore what better 'proof' of God than God the Holy Spirit interceding and interacting with you? Guiding you the hard times and giving you hope when you should not have any. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not a command, nor law. It's a gift offered to us, one we all do not have to have or even completely understand in order to simply be saved.

---

[quote='Drich' pid='502454' dateline='1378351138']
Then why have so many of you fallen away from the faiths of your fathers?
(I'm not speaking to one person alpo I'm speaking of those who are members here that grew up in Christianity, and have fallen away.)

It was rhetorical. Questions like the ones that follow are the reason that 'self delusion' is not a viable diagnosis for the whole of any religion. There are far too many people asking far too many questions inorder for self delusion to be the one size fits all diagnosis some make it out to be.

Because there is a whole lot of question that your god doesn't stand up to.
1. read my sig

Don't get sigs on a tablet.

2. If god is all powerful and can create anythng, can he make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?

Only if He wanted to.
God's description of Himself is not all powerful. It is alpha and omega the beginning and end of all things. Which means He has the power and authority to choose whom ever He wants to be, and as such is not bound by some silly doctrine of man that can be used to create a paradox.
If God wants to make a rock so big... He can, if He does not want to, then He does not have to. Again that what it means to be alpha and omega. In short it means one is not bound to a title or perception to act or behave a certain way.

3. Why did he create satan knowing he rebel?

So, Satan could offer us Choice in the Garden, and though out the reign of man.

4. Why did he put the tree of good and evil in the garden knowing that eve or adam could never follow his instruction

actually the opposite was true. Adam followed the Instructions of God for an undisclosed amount of time. It could have been trillions of years. We don't know exactly. We do know it only came to an end when satan was allowed to tempt eve.

beause he failed to teach them right from wrong, and then did nt even know what death was.

Taking from the tree of knowledge was not about right and wrong it was about life and death. To say Adam did not know about death is foolishness. Nothing in the bible says anything besides God, Adam and Eve were immortal in the garden.

5.How can a being defined as love torment people for eternity, because of thought crimes during a finite life?

How do you know 'we' are tortured for eternity? The bible says Hell is eternal, and that Satan's punishment in Hell will be eternal, but it says nothing to the effect that we in Hell will be. Matter of fact when Christ warns of us of Hell He warns that it will consume us. Not sustain us forever.

6. Where did canes wife come
lets see if you can handle those because I have more.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-14190.ht...=Evolution


Oh, no the promise of more questions...


Bring it sport, lets see what you've got. Promise me one thing, you do your worst, and at the end when I answer YOUR 50 best questions, you make one of two declarations. One, your right I was wrong and I will take another look at God. Two, even though I can not answer your points I still refuse to acknowledge God because by my FAITH and FAITH alone in my peers and 'education' I seem to have the freedom to live my life how I want to this way, and simply refuse to acknowledge God as a point of pride.

There you have it at 3. Your god is immoral.

[Drich]

There you have it at 3. Your god is immoral.

Here is one we did on 'morality' and why it is not a standard one can use to accuratly judge God.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-12306.html

This is the answer to Epericus (which by the way you mis quoted):
http://atheistforums.org/thread-11945.html

If you want to save yourself 22 pages of arguement then know I simply say that the epericuian Paradox was not orginally intended for the God of the bible. epericus was born and live 300 years before Christ let alone Christianity. As a Gentile He would have next to no understanding of the God of Abraham in his life time. Epericus was orginally taking about the greek gods. Then someone recently modified epericus' arguement (not paradox) to fit the description of an 'omni-Max- God. Which is a description the God of the bible does not claim for Himself. He calls Himself "I am," or the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end of all things." and as I said before this means God is whomever He wants to be.

So this arguement Fails in every possiable way, starting with Epericus' orginal intention for this supposed Paradox that was written to flush out the greek Gods. to it fail modern interpertation to dis proove an omni max God, God Himself does not identify with.

---

Hah so there you have it. According to your abswer to 3 god is evil.

How so?

Sin is anything outside the expressed will of God.

that makes Evil a willful desire or act in malice to be outside of God's will.

How can God be evil if whatever He does, Is indeed within the confines of His will?

---

Too bad faith is the most dishonest position you can take. It's a real shame that you have to use dishonesty as a fall-back when presented with verifiable facts.

Indeed, I suppose that is why there is such a sting associeated with the admission of faith in the light of 'answered questions.' It's the irony of it all. Atheist generally preach that 'education' trumps religion, but when religion can factually answer education, then the 'educated' must default to a posision of 'faith' to maintain what they believe.

-or
the more popular route is to try and discredit the one shining the light on their faith.

[Bad Writer]

When you bring up "you just need faith" that becomes a discredit to your position.

[Drich]

When you bring up "you just need faith" that becomes a discredit to your position.

where did I say this?

[Bad Writer]

Three posts ago. I'm on my phone, so even though I'm looking at what you said, I'm not going to try and quote it and fix it up for you.

But this brings up another question: do you not heavily rely on faith in order to justify your fundamental beliefs?

[Captain Colostomy]

I smell a set-up.