If these resident theists really talk to god..

[Airyaman]

Wonder how they came up with the 3 million figure?

It is odd that so many people left nothing behind to show they were ever there however.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Besides, atheism is a position of non-belief, not one of denial; we don't believe god exists, and if we had evidence, then we would believe ...

I only wish that were universally true, and it probably does not apply to you. Some atheists are simply contrarians and/or angry at their religious upbringing. No evidence would suffice to make them believe anymore than some believers will drop their faith in response to hack objections to become atheists.

[Esquilax]

I only wish that were universally true, and it probably does not apply to you. Some atheists are simply contrarians and/or angry at their religious upbringing. No evidence would suffice to make them believe anymore than some believers will drop their faith in response to hack objections to become atheists.

We can both go around spinning each other's position any way we like, Chad. What matters is whether evidence can actually be presented or not, and I've never seen any that points to a specific god, even if it points to one at all. Now, you can point to me and say that I'm just being contrary, but that's not much of an argument. As I've said in the past, if that was actually true it would be very easy for you guys to utterly remove the credibility of us contrarian atheists by simply continuing to prove your god exists, and yet the atheist community continues to grow.

So go ahead. I don't find this reinterpreting of the motives of dissenters to be a terribly convincing argument from either side, though.

[themonkeyman]

Drich is more in the market for praying that you get cancer:

Which just goes to show how much of a terrible human being he really is.

My father has terminal cancer, he's an atheist. Never once seen or heard him talk about any sort of god, whatever that is.

It would not surprise me - I asked Christians for help ages ago and most turned me away. I have learning Difficulties which means I have problems at times controlling what I say. Of all people in this world you would have thought Christians would have been the most understanding. When in fact they were the worst offenders of all.

I can't speak for any one else but maybe I don't want to see you in heaven that badly.

So demonstrating the "GLORY" of god that works within you in a fashion that jesus himself stated you could do is something you won't do because you don't love me enough?

That said, I can speak for God in this one instance, in that He appearently does not want to see you in Heaven that badly either.

So the bible babble about him loving me is bullshit too?

Fore you like everyone else has been commanded to Humble yourself before Him, and then allow Him to lift you up. He will not humble Himself before you and perform parlor tricks to 'earn' your belief.

So Not only his respect, love, and forgiveness must be "EARNED", but his evidence for even existing must be earned too? God knows that his stories don't jive and make rational sense, but he won't accept me and give me really good evidence because I haven't EARNED it. Okie Dokie then.. Dick god you have there!

I am quite sure He will see you to Hell before God Humbles Himself before you to provide you with anything ..

Not that God couldn't ..

So because I live in 2013 and not in 32 AD I am punished as a rational skeptic in that I am not allowed to witness firsthand the evidence of a real god, despite god knowing that the nature of those that live around me is to lie and make up fanciful gods. Again, what a dick god you have..

Cheers Drich about saying God Doesent care for people at least you finally realise that back in Genesis he regreted making us and has probably been looking for a reason to obliterate us time and time again.

Well, to be fair Brakeman, god really only showed up for a few handful of people at a time in remote locations even in the bible, so its not like he's into big crowds and getting around.

[Drich]

I did. I told you to watch out for the world leader that will intergrate or spear head the intergration the R/C Church and the popes 'new doctrines' with all other forms of luke warm spiritualism/religion. He will form the one world religion spoken of in Revelation....

Esquilax, I wouldn't give him a clap on the back so fast, it already happened.

Pope urges leaders to unite for peace
March 20 2013 at 10:30pm

Vatican City - Pope Francis urged members of all religions and those belonging to no church on Wednesday to unite to defend justice, peace and the environment and not allow the value of a person to be reduced to “what he produces and what he consumes”.

Francis, elected a week ago as the first non-European pope in 1 300 years, met leaders of non-Catholic Christian religions such as Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists, and others including Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus.

“The Catholic Church is aware of the importance of furthering respect of friendship between men and women of different religious traditions,” the Argentine pontiff told the religious leaders in an audience at the Vatican.

Speaking in Italian in the frescoed Sala Clementina, he said members of all religions and even non-believers had to recognise their joint responsibility “to our world, to all of creation, which we have to love and protect.

“We must do much for the good of the poorest, the weak, and those who are suffering, to favour justice, promote reconciliation and build peace,” he said.

Now I get why you'll defend the indefensible with such fervor, Drich--you think the world is going to be ending soon. Or that it already is. If you're looking for the false prophet, then who do you think is the first beast aka: the antichrist?

I bet I could take a guess.

Peacemaking also was on the mind of Rabbi Nancy Fuchs-Kreimer, professor of religious studies at Reconstructionist Rabbinical College in Pennsylvania.
"I would beg the pope to take the arm of the next president of the United States and together, along with the chief rabbi and a chief imam that they could find, to get their bodies over to Jerusalem as fast as they possibly can and get some kind of peace that includes a two-state solution. Because without a two-state solution, our people don't have much of a rosy future," Rabbi Fuchs-Kreimer told CNS in a telephone interview.

And here inlies the dilemma. Peace can't be attained without co-operation. But Christians like Drich here think the world is ending if peace within religions is sought. The new Pope standing up for peace is looked upon as the evilest evil that ever evilled. Even atheists standing up too for peace are fulfilling the prophecies that all the world will be united into the New World Order.

Interestingly enough, strip everyone's religious views from them and they're just a bunch of fellow human beings killing one another. Which is reality, sadly.

---

Nice tomato!

Is that what it is? I've been trying to discern whether or not it's a deformed vegetable, an alien, or an aborted fetus

We'll see what happens one way or another. Some will be ready while others will be left.. It's not my job to decide who's who. I'm here to inform those who want to go to keep an eye out.

Me wishing the end will no more influence the end than you trying to wish and explain away my efforts.

[John V]

Point is that, either way, you've already answered that question - "not" - despite the amount of evidence.

This is a really strange thing to say: we're atheists, of course right now we wouldn't follow Jesus. It would be rather odd of us to not believe in Jesus yet still follow him.

Besides, atheism is a position of non-belief, not one of denial; we don't believe god exists, and if we had evidence, then we would believe that he did, but nothing in any of those concepts entails worship. I can see why a christian might conflate the two, considering that so much of your concept of god is bound up in your belief that he's perfect and worthy of worship, but they're really not connected.

The atheist position here isn't "prove god exists and I'll worship him," for you to prove it's disingenuous. It's "prove god exists and I'll believe he exists." Which is absolutely true, but that doesn't mean I automatically need to start bending and scraping. I believe lots of things exist without doing that; my entirely believed-in coffee machine goes every day without worship. You shouldn't add things onto the atheist position, here.

You called my position really strange - then pretty much agreed with it. Now that's strange! You don't need to make a knee-jerk reaction against everything I say...or maybe you do.

[Drich]

Again a youtube trick would be a waist of time for anyone who does not already believe.

I said that you guys need to experience God for yourself, to witness it, and to question it and the circumstances. Which is provided/offered to you if you A/S/K

I have already shown that your ask, seek and knock is bullshit in another thread. Ignoring my post does not change the fact a/s/k does not work. I have shown that you see things that are not there. Why continue with the bullshit drich.

No you haven't the only thing you did was zero on the parts of the passage that says ask, while ignoring everything else. I point this intelectual dishonesty out to you and you promptly ignored it, so I simply ignored you. The conversation ended because you were not willing to acknoweledge what was on page.

---

Hey,

After reading the comments back and forward I have to say that 'Drippy' has a very weak argument for the case of God.

I love the fact that they say phrases such as 'Even if we did miracles you wouldent believe' and other statments as 'Its been done before'

So with those two statements in mind lets take a look what their Bible says.

John 4:48 - So Jesus said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.”

I believe this is a strong enough viewpoint. Jesus acknowledged that there would be people who would not believe unless they seen miracles. So what the fuck did Jesus do he gave them miracles.

Also

Where do you think the phrase Doubting Thomas came along. Here is a guy who had problems believing but Jesus time and time again had to explain and show Thomas.

So we Atheists today are no worse than those Doubting Thomas'es Except unlike him we have Christians saying - 'We wont do miracles because we cant' err I mean 'We wont do miracles because you wont believe us if you did'

I tell you one thing. I ask all Christians to pray for all cancer types to be cured over night! Drich I will follow God 'I promise on my own life' if you can show me that every cancer in existence has some magical cure by tommrow.

I'm skeptical you can do it but If you do you will have won another sheep over!

Again signs and wonders are provided to those who First Humble themselves before God.

What is with you all that you do not understand this part? My whole ministry hereis based around all of the signs and wonders God has done for me, and inturn will do specifically for you if you first humble yourselves before Him by A/S/King for the gift of the Holy Spirit.

---

Drich is more in the market for praying that you get cancer:

Which just goes to show how much of a terrible human being he really is.

My father has terminal cancer, he's an atheist. Never once seen or heard him talk about any sort of god, whatever that is.

When the blackness consumes him, he will cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

[Esquilax]

You called my position really strange - then pretty much agreed with it. Now that's strange! You don't need to make a knee-jerk reaction against everything I say...or maybe you do.

It's possible that I misread your post. To me it sounded like you were continuing with an "atheists are being disingenuous because they wouldn't worship god even if we proved it," thing, and that's just not true. If that's not what you were saying, could you rephrase?

I always leave room for the possibility I could be missing something, after all.

[Cyberman]

Which just goes to show how much of a terrible human being he really is.

My father has terminal cancer, he's an atheist. Never once seen or heard him talk about any sort of god, whatever that is.

When the blackness consumes him, he will cry out maybe not to you, but to God. Rest assured every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

Well done for proving Fidel's point, but I'm sure he won't thank you for it. Do you really need me to tell you where to stick your preachy ambulance-chasing sermonising - and against the family of another member? Not cool, not in the slightest. I suggest you apologise immediately.

[Drich]

So demonstrating the "GLORY" of god that works within you in a fashion that jesus himself stated you could do is something you won't do because you don't love me enough?

Nuuuupe.
Just because you identify codependency as 'love' does not mean I'm obligated to 'love' you back in the way you demand to be 'loved.' Neither is God.

Love/Agape is an absolute standard that does not bend or change to fit the mental disorder you identify as love. To show you 'Agape' as i am required I must simply show you the path/love God offers us. I have many times over this last year. In order for 'Agape' to progress you must be faithful to the Agape given to you in God's name. If you are not, then that is where Agape ends.

So the bible babble about him loving me is bullshit too.

If you believe 'Agape/love' to be based in codependancy, then yes God does not 'love' you as you are trying to manipulate this word. God does not 'agape/love' everyone. The bible even says there are those in whom God hates. The doctrine of 'omni-benevolance' is a doctrine of man that actually goes against biblical evidences.

So Not only his respect, love, and forgiveness must be "EARNED", but his evidence for even existing must be earned too?

Yes.
Forgiveness is very conditional, so is God's love. (John 3:16)

God knows that his stories don't jive and make rational sense, but he won't accept me and give me really good evidence because I haven't EARNED it. Okie Dokie then.. Dick god you have there!

They don't jive' simply because you do not hold to all of the doctrinal teachings of God. You have built a picture of God on these 'doctrinal/non-biblical' teachings, and that God does not repersent the God of the bible. If you only looked at what the bible says about God and take that picture the bible creates then everything makes sense.

So because I live in 2013 and not in 32 AD I am punished as a rational skeptic in that I am not allowed to witness firsthand the evidence of a real god, despite god knowing that the nature of those that live around me is to lie and make up fanciful gods. Again, what a dick god you have..

Look in mat 12 where Christ condemns the Pharisees for blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

Look at the blaspheme closly. Did the Pharisees mention the Holy Spirit in any way? No, the saw the miricals of Christ and attributed the Works of the Holy Spirt to the Devil. How could they do this if they saw what Christ did?!?! if everything you claim is correct then they would be obligated to acknoweledge Jesus as God correct? Then why didn't they? Why did they look for anyother explaination other than acknoweledging Christ as God?

In short because they did not Humble themselves before God. They stood in thier own pride much like the way you do now. They looked for ways to explain away Christ, because they wanted to live a life without Him.

So the bible babble about him loving me is bullshit too.

If you believe 'Agape/love' to be based in codependancy, then yes God does not 'love' you as you are trying to manipulate this word. God does not 'agape/love' everyone. The bible even says there are those in whom God hates. The doctrine of 'omni-benevolance' is a doctrine of man that actually goes against biblical evidences.

So Not only his respect, love, and forgiveness must be "EARNED", but his evidence for even existing must be earned too?

Yes.
Forgiveness is very conditional, so is God's love. (John 3:16)

God knows that his stories don't jive and make rational sense, but he won't accept me and give me really good evidence because I haven't EARNED it. Okie Dokie then.. Dick god you have there!

They don't jive' simply because you hold to all of the doctrinal teachings of God. You have built a picture of God on these 'doctrinal/non-biblical' teachings, and that God does not repersent the God of the bible. If you only looked at what the bible says about God and take that picture the bible creates then everything makes sense.

So because I live in 2013 and not in 32 AD I am punished as a rational skeptic in that I am not allowed to witness firsthand the evidence of a real god, despite god knowing that the nature of those that live around me is to lie and make up fanciful gods. Again, what a dick god you have..

Look in mat 12 where Christ condemns the Pharisees for blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

Look at the blaspheme closly. Did the Pharisees mention the Holy Spirit in any way? No, the saw the miricals of Christ and attributed the Works of the Holy Spirt to the Devil. How could they do this if they saw what Christ did?!?! After if everything you claim is correct then they would be obligated to acknoweledge Jesus as God correct? Then why didn't they? Why did they look for anyother explaination other than acknoweledging Christ as God?

In short because they did not Humble themselves before God. They stood in thier own pride much like the way you do now. They looked for ways to explain away Christ, because they wanted to live a life without Him.
[/quote]

---

Well, to be fair Brakeman, god really only showed up for a few handful of people at a time in remote locations even in the bible, so its not like he's into big crowds and getting around.

So.. Sermon on the mount, the fact that the bible says Jesus was followed by massive groups of people where ever he went, the feeding of the 5000 a couple of different times was what? 'small groups?'