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godless pro-lifers
#51
RE: godless pro-lifers
(October 13, 2013 at 8:03 pm)Zazzy Wrote:
(October 13, 2013 at 7:53 pm)SouthernAtheist Wrote: I personally believe abortion is wrong. I don't support it, I like other options. But, I don't think abortion should be illegal. Not at all. What we need is education and other ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy. In this way, hopefully in the future, abortion will be rare. Pro Lifers, Republicans, etc go about it all wrong. Banning abortion will not stop it. They laugh at those who want to ban guns, or increase gun control as obviously, that won't stop criminals from getting guns. It's the same thing with abortion. Making it illegal will not stop it, we need to tackle it from the core.
Agreed. We have pretty good birth control methods, and if we really made a concentrated effort to teach everyone about them and make them easily accessible, abortion would be very rare. Unfortunately, the real motive of the anti-choice pitbulls is to control women and girls, so we won't be doing the right thing any time soon.

And you are the type of person who deserves the label pro-life (instead of anti-choice), because you aren't foisting your personal beliefs on others, and you genuinely care about the health and well-being of women.

(October 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm)Heir Apparent Wrote: However, a lizard with no condoms is a clown.
Touche, sir. I recognize when I am defeated in debate. I do notice, however, that you did not specify the type of lizard, which leaves room for me to insert a creator, as well as to suspect your unwavering support for unhatched lizard rights.

This must be what it feels like to be Grace, except with a better vocabulary.

Thank you, I don't label myself pro choice or pro life, but in a sense, I am neither and I am both. I do genuinely care about the health and well being of women(:
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#52
RE: godless pro-lifers
(October 13, 2013 at 8:25 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: Firstly, I have yet to hear a pro-life argument that isn't pure misogyny.

Secondly, your "using your hands to strangle someone" thing is a false analogy. A slightly better analogy would be "using your hands to kill a wasp."

Really? The standard one is "embryos are humans, killing humans is murder". Nomatter what you think of the argument, it's in no way misogynistic...

My analogy is not false. My point was not to focus on the specific action of the hands, but rather the fact that actions thenselves can be bad. It had nothing to do with abortion, but the fact that saying "you can't control my vagina" is ridiculous when you aren't considering the context. We control (or try to control) what people do all the time, depending on the context.
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#53
RE: godless pro-lifers
(October 13, 2013 at 8:20 pm)Tiberius Wrote: The whole "you can't control what I do with my vagina" argument is a bit silly though. It's like "you can't control what I do with my hands". Well, if you use them to strangle someone, then yes, society can. Context is important.

That is very well said. Good way to put it.
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#54
RE: godless pro-lifers
(October 13, 2013 at 8:30 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Really? The standard one is "embryos are humans, killing humans is murder". Nomatter what you think of the argument, it's in no way misogynistic...
Actually, if you question people who use that argument further, it is misogynistic. They usually reveal it by accidentally letting slip that "It's ok if she was raped, because then it's not her fault!" or some similar shit to destroy their original argument. It's funny when it happens, actually.

(October 13, 2013 at 8:30 pm)Tiberius Wrote: My analogy is not false. My point was not to focus on the specific action of the hands, but rather the fact that actions thenselves can be bad. It had nothing to do with abortion, but the fact that saying "you can't control my vagina" is ridiculous when you aren't considering the context. We control (or try to control) what people do all the time, depending on the context.
Ah, I guess I missed your point when I read that. Sorry.
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#55
RE: godless pro-lifers
(October 13, 2013 at 8:20 pm)Tiberius Wrote: The whole "you can't control what I do with my vagina" argument is a bit silly though. It's like "you can't control what I do with my hands". Well, if you use them to strangle someone, then yes, society can. Context is important.
But you CAN'T control it (unless we enter a sci-fi world of monitoring vaginas and uteruses, which I would not put past the fundies in government to suggest). The only person who could currently control my vagina is a rapist, and that's bad. ANY attempt to control what goes in or out of my genitals is RAPE, and that is not hyperbole. The only way anyone will EVER control my vagina is if they hold a knife to my throat.

Or I could just have a nice trip to Paris if I need civilized medical care.

But you're right that context IS important. If the government wants to implant a monitor in my uterus to know whether or not I am pregnant (or, as currently in Texas, shove an unneeded transvaginal ultrasound wand up me if I'm pregnant), that's certainly rape, although probably in a more sterile environment than the pig in the alley who grabs me and shoves his dirty cock in me. Different contexts, same raping result.
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#56
RE: godless pro-lifers
Nora, I challenge you to point out any argument I've made against abortion that is misogynistic, either outright or otherwise.
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#57
RE: godless pro-lifers
Didn't we already do this in another thread?
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#58
RE: godless pro-lifers
I want this to develop. At least link me to prior mentioned 'other thread.'
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#59
RE: godless pro-lifers
(October 13, 2013 at 8:40 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: Didn't we already do this in another thread?
Yes, and I'm actually quite upset and offended that you seem to think of me as a misogynist because I think that human embryos are humans and can be murdered. Hence why I thought it right to challenge you on that point.

If you think my arguments are misogynistic, show how they are. Note that misogynistic means hatred of women, nothing more.
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#60
RE: godless pro-lifers
You are using your personal views as an excuse to oppress women to have a child they do not want and which you will do nothing to raise or support.

Why, boss? What is your interest in the case?
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