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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 8:46 am
(October 22, 2013 at 8:40 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Funny how when push comes to shove, god turns into a glorified psychologist rather than an omnipotent being who created everything and can change everything for the better.
Edit: I have no intentions of insulting psychologists.
He already has changed everything for the better, through Christ
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"When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." John 19:30
All the other religions tell you what to do but but Jesus says it's done that's the difference there.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 8:55 am
(October 22, 2013 at 7:48 pm)Faith No More Wrote: So, suffering exists to teach people how to comfort? Yes, that's part of it.
Quote:Yet no one would need to be comforted if suffering didn't exist. You're going in circles.
It's not a circle, it's two possible worlds.
One has suffering, but also has compassion, generosity, self-sacrifice, etc. - qualities which most consider to be good and noble.
The other has no suffering, but neither does it have these good and noble qualities.
It's a matter of opinion as to which one, if either, is better.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 8:59 am
A good example of what we may have been like had God just zapped us into existence as immortal gods in pure comfort would be the gods of Olympus, they were all assholes, God doesn't want to be in relationship with assholes.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm
I don't know too much about the greek gods but I would be willing to bet that your god is more of an asshole
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 2:24 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2013 at 2:27 pm by Sword of Christ.)
(October 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm)Rationalman Wrote: I don't know too much about the greek gods but I would be willing to bet that your god is more of an asshole
The Christian God is essentially Jesus confusing as a concept though it is. Not the entirety of God seeing he was also a human the same as we are.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 8:55 am)John V Wrote: It's not a circle, it's two possible worlds.
One has suffering, but also has compassion, generosity, self-sacrifice, etc. - qualities which most consider to be good and noble.
The other has no suffering, but neither does it have these good and noble qualities.
It's a matter of opinion as to which one, if either, is better.
That only works if god is incapable of creating the benefits, i.e. compassion and generosity, without creating suffering. If god is omnipotent, that is not a problem. Even bigger of a problem still, your own religion promises you a world with all those benefits without suffering as an eternal reward. Now you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 3:49 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm)Faith No More Wrote: That only works if god is incapable of creating the benefits, i.e. compassion and generosity, without creating suffering. How else would you accomplish that?
Quote:If god is omnipotent, that is not a problem.
Actually most translations say he's "all-powerful." Personally I don't see teaching compassion as a function of power.
Quote:Even bigger of a problem still, your own religion promises you a world with all those benefits without suffering as an eternal reward. Now you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.
Where does my religion say that we'll have need for such things in the next life?
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 4:11 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 3:49 pm)John V Wrote: How else would you accomplish that?
How should I know how an omnipotent deity could create something? That doesn't take away from the fact that it is omnipotent and can create one thing without being forced to create something else.
(October 23, 2013 at 3:49 pm)John V Wrote: Actually most translations say he's "all-powerful." Personally I don't see teaching compassion as a function of power.
Omnipotent is synonymous with all-powerful.
(October 23, 2013 at 3:49 pm)John V Wrote: Where does my religion say that we'll have need for such things in the next life?
So, there is no compassion or generosity in heaven?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 4:24 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 8:46 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 8:40 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Funny how when push comes to shove, god turns into a glorified psychologist rather than an omnipotent being who created everything and can change everything for the better.
Edit: I have no intentions of insulting psychologists.
He already has changed everything for the better, through Christ
"When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." John 19:30
All the other religions tell you what to do but but Jesus says it's done that's the difference there.
IF it is ALREADY done - then why do we need a religion - we are already saved - from NOTHING!
Sorry - the whole nonsense of the Xtian religion depends upon the FAIRY TALE of adam and eve being true - and it is laughably fiction.
Without Adam and Eve - the fiction of original sin is also nonsense - even though it NEVER agreed with the bible anyway. WE are not responsible for since of our fathers - so original sin was committed by EVE - and the MYTHICAL christ - another non-entity who you never provide proof of existence for - would have saved eve - who was already dead.
So -
1 - No Xtian has ever provided a single piece of testable and verifiable proof of the existence of its god.
THERE is a way to determine whether a god is real - right in the bible - 1 Kings Chapter 18. I challenge any Xtian to actually follow through with that - and prove its god is real. (They won't - they know their god is NOT real)
2 - THERE is not a single document that we have - that can be dated to the time of the christ - that even mentions his name. EVEN if he did exist - he did not fulfill the prophecies of the messiah
1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17)
2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendent of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)
3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)
4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)
5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)
6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)
All of these criteria for the Messiah are best stated in the book of Ezekiel chapter 37:24-28:
"And My servant David will be a king over them, and they will all have one shepherd, and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them, and they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant...and I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their G-d and they will be My people. And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever."
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, he cannot be the Messiah.”
THe temple at Jerusalem had not yet been destroyed during the time of the christ - he simply CANNOT be the messiah - period.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 23, 2013 at 4:37 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 4:11 pm)Faith No More Wrote: How should I know how an omnipotent deity could create something?
That doesn't take away from the fact that it is omnipotent and can create one thing without being forced to create something else. That has not been established as fact.
Quote:Omnipotent is synonymous with all-powerful.
It should be, yet people - like you apparently - take it incorrectly as "able to do anything," rather than "able to do anything which is a function of power."
Quote:So, there is no compassion or generosity in heaven?
Maybe generosity, but I don't see that there'd be compassion. Yet we'll know what compassion is due to our experience in this life, making us fuller than if we had been created directly for heaven.
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