JFK: The Smoking Gun

[Doubting Thomas]

Yes, i agree but watch it's 2 hours of your life

2 hours of my life I'll never get back.

and the image min had is not the best view. According to the show lots of the photos were destroyed.

Ah, yes, the old "you should have seen the photos the government destroyed" evidence. Sorry, but if evidence doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

I am a skeptic but this time I think they got it right, but i could be wrong it's happened before.

Then why the massive coverup? People have gotten reamed and raked over the coals for lesser screwups, so accidentally killing the president of the United States seems like it would be punishment worthy, not coverup worthy. Besides, what about all the other players? Why wouldn't the passengers in the presidential limo say they heard the last shot very close behind the car? Why put the blame on Oswald for the president's death rather than the Secret Service agent?

---

Now I suppose, like all conspiracy exposers, I'll have to go into hiding from secret service agents.

Naw, they're pretty safe since they all post their drivel all over the internet without any fear of censorship or reprisal.

[Manowar]

They answer many of your questions in the show. The problem i think is so many years of theory form Castro to the Mafia to bigfoot all killing JFK At this point most just think who cares. I just thought if true it is the most interesting theory i ever heard. Until last night I always believed that Oswald alone did it but not anymore. I don't blame you for not wanting to watch this but I think it is so different than what we have heard over the years it's worth it.

Ps. 11 different witnesses all state that Hickey had that sniper weapon in the back limo

Manowar

[Manowar]

I caught a few minutes of JFK The smoking gun agin and they showed a pic of george Hickey in the limo with the rifle in his hand. I could not find it on the net but they showed it on the show and the bullets Oswald used full metal jacket rounds, but one bullet exploded in kennedy's head and opened up a huge hole, did Oswald change bullets? The rifle hickey supposedly used had those kind of bullets(hollowpoint) This is not a conspiracy theory, Oswald did it alone but the shot that exploded in the president was not the same round .
If you read the book "Mortal Error" they might have those pics there.
manowar

[Jackalope]

I caught a few minutes of JFK The smoking gun agin and they showed a pic of george Hickey in the limo with the rifle in his hand. I could not find it on the net but they showed it on the show and the bullets Oswald used full metal jacket rounds, but one bullet exploded in kennedy's head and opened up a huge hole, did Oswald change bullets? The rifle hickey supposedly used had those kind of bullets(hollowpoint) This is not a conspiracy theory, Oswald did it alone but the shot that exploded in the president was not the same round .
If you read the book "Mortal Error" they might have those pics there.
manowar

A few things -

* What evidence is there that Hickey's AR-15 used hollowpoints? I find it highly unlikely, as standard issue ball ammunition is FMJ, and as far as I am aware, there was no government issue hollowpoint 5.56. Furthermore, given that AR-15s are notably fussy about feeding ammunition it's not likely that they used anything but FMJ. Not that it necessarily matters (see my later points).

* Hollowpoint projectiles do not "explode" - they expand, typically to about twice their nominal diameter.

* FMJ bullets can and will do "strange" things when they impact bone, including fragmentation and ricochet. Coincidentally, the standard FMJ bullets used in *both* the 6.5x52 Carcano (used by Oswald) and the 5.56x45 NATO (used by Hickey) exhibit similar characteristics when they contact bone.

In short, the differences between wounds in soft tissue vs. a head wound can be explained by the nature of the wound location.

Who was their terminal ballistics expert, and what are his qualifications?

[Manowar]

Howard Charles Hinman Donahue, was a famous ballistics expert, he is the one who uncovered this and the book "Mortal Error was written in 92. You could be right but like I said before it is so odd to think the very people protecting the pres actually shot him, his brain had about 30 to 40 fragments and a lot of your questions are answered in the show. I can't do it that's why I wanted you guys to see this. I am not a conspiracy theorist, I just happened to see the show and thought some of you might like it and find it interesting.

manowar

[Jackalope]

Howard Charles Hinman Donahue, was a famous ballistics expert, he is the one who uncovered this and the book "Mortal Error was written in 92. You could be right but like I said before it is so odd to think the very people protecting the pres actually shot him, his brain had about 30 to 40 fragments and a lot of your questions are answered in the show. I can't do it that's why I wanted you guys to see this. I am not a conspiracy theorist, I just happened to see the show and thought some of you might like it and find it interesting.

manowar

Well, Donahue was "famous" by virtue of having provided consulting to CBS for a news program about the JFK assassination. Prior to that, he was a pilot in the Army Air Corps, a car salesman, and owned a gun store. I assume that he was a firearms enthusiast, which is probably where he came upon his knowledge of ballistics - there doesn't appear to be anything in his background that would lead me to conclude that he had any kind of formal training or work experience that would lead to his claim of being a "ballistics expert".

Even assuming that he was more-or-less knowledgeable in the field of ballistics - which I don't doubt - there are three disciplines in ballistics: interior ballistics, exterior ballistics, and terminal ballistics. Only the latter two are relevant here. Exterior ballistics concerns itself with the characteristics of a projectile from muzzle to target, terminal ballistics is concerned with what happens to the projectile (and the target) upon and after impact. Two entirely different disciplines, and with respect to the type of forensic applications we're talking about here, terminal ballistics is not something that the average guy who happens to own a gun store and is into guns is going to know fuck all about.

In other words, absent any kind of indication that Mr. Donahue actually knows what he's talking about with respect to terminal ballistics (i.e. being able to tell the difference between a 6.5 Carcano and 5.56 NATO post-impact with a human head), it appears likely to me that he was talking out of his ass. (Hang out at a gun club sometime, and you'll discover that amongst gun nuts, talking out your ass is a favorite pastime.)

If all we've got is this guy's "expert opinion", that and four bucks will get you a cuppa joe at Starbucks.

Really simple question: What evidence is there that Hickey's weapon was fired - Or any other weapon other than Oswald's? They got any physical / forensic evidence at all that isn't explained by the official story?

ETA: I don't know whether this guy is right or wrong. I don't have any idea, nor am I particularly all that interested in the JFK assassination, per se. Even if there are reasons to doubt the Warren Commission report, I see little reason to give the claims that the third shot was an accidental discharge any weight, or waste two hours of my life without an indication of what the evidence is, nor would I expect anyone else to do so based on someone's opinion that they found it convincing.

[Doubting Thomas]

My question is, if you're a trained Secret Service agent doing presidential bodyguard detail, why do you point your weapon in the direction of the president and not toward the threat? I don't regularly handle a rifle, but even I know not to point it at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot. If he's riding on the car's running board and hears the shots behind him, his training should have kicked in and if he were to grab the rifle, hold the muzzle either up toward the sky or down toward the ground while cocking it, and then aim toward the direction you heard the shots coming from.

I think someone just wanted to sell a book and are cashing in on the JFK assassination conspiracy while it's still going. Oh, and maybe it's just a coincidence that the 50th anniversary of the assassination is coming up this month.

[Minimalist]

I thought you guys would be more intertested, this was solved many years ago it's not new, the book never caught on maybe because like you guys everybody was bored with the subject.

Min, The guy in the back seat of the limo behind JFK ( Hickey) had it hidden on the floor as the shots were heard he picked it up and undid the safety, at that point the cars sped up, I guess to avoid more shots Hickey jerked slightly backwards and pulled the trigger.
manowar

Um, WHAT back seat behind JFK? Kennedy and Jackie are in the back seat.



That's called the trunk.

[Jackalope]

Min - Hickey was in the limo behind the presidential limo. Obviously, not in the seat behind him (as there wasn't one).

[Captain Colostomy]

Even allowing for 'fog of war' type errors, I'm having trouble accepting this fanciful rendering of events.