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RE: Universe from Nothing?
November 14, 2013 at 2:41 pm
(November 8, 2013 at 6:35 am)Lion IRC Wrote: Quote:..We don't know how the universe started or from what. That doesn't mean magic is the answer - particularly as it has never been before for any unanswered question.
How is atheistic...'we don't know', better than theistic...'we think we DO know'
It's better because it is honest. You make up a story and call it truth - you are a liar.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Universe from Nothing?
November 14, 2013 at 4:57 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2013 at 5:02 pm by Walking Void.)
I like to lean with Lawrence Krauss when it comes to theories of the universe's start. Please note that these theories do not entail the start of "time". To paraphrase the description of empty space before the fully material universe, space with a mass density of 0g/m^3 (0 grams per meter cubed) and as a result an energy density of 0j/m^3 (0 joules per meter cubed- sorry for the shitty notation) is empty space. Empty space does not mean that there is no energy. No, in fact, an energy density of 0 just means that the energy within a volume sums to a total of 0. 0 times any number or divided by any number is 0. We have theories about negative energy, and together with positive energy like the energy of gravity, they cancel out. Say I had a joule of energy, and a negative joule of energy. If the meter cubed of space they occupied were to be measured, the density would be 0, because (1 - 1) / m^3 = 0. Always. Oh, I forgot that joules per meter cubed can also be called pascals. I should use that.
This is also said in much the same way about matter. Using the conservation of mass, matter cannot be destroyed or created, it can only change. And 1 of those transformations is the conversion of energy into mass, as You have probably seen in Einstein's mass-energy equivalence. Concentrated energy produces matter, and this is done by condensing the energy into a single point. We do not know what forces act upon massless sources of energy, otherwise We would know what caused the big bang.
Conclusion: science does not know what caused the big bang.
EDIT: Made a boo boo and used negative energy in place of dark energy.
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RE: Universe from Nothing?
November 15, 2013 at 12:31 am
(November 14, 2013 at 9:48 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: (November 14, 2013 at 12:37 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: I fail see how natural laws infer a natural legislator. Isn't that just the gunslinger fallacy?
How do you define "law"?
Optional?
Enforced or not?
Chaotic or sensible?
Intentional or random?
Temporary or permanent?
Intelligible or gobkledoybgo?
How bout in the world of science atleast, as descriptive?
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
