The Lie of the True Christian™

[Foxaèr]

I have found if a misspelling derails a topic then generally speaking, the person who points out the misspelling is looking for an easy out.

I merely mentioned the misspelling because I was providing an observable fact.

[freedomfromforum]

I have found if a misspelling derails a topic then generally speaking, the person who points out the misspelling is looking for an easy out.

I merely mentioned the misspelling because I was providing an observable fact.

Asking a theist to observe facts is akin to asking their god to love - it's not possible.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

Don't be mean! Theists are more than willing to observe facts

That they will then spend the next couple of decades trying to distort it in order to make it fit in with the [insert holy book of choice here] account is entirely beside the point

[Polaris]

A high level of inner peace when worshiping and praying. Just a regular amount of peace (same as I had before being a Christian) 95% of the time when not in a worship mode. That extra 5% is the best though since I experience God's love when I least expect it.

[Godscreated]

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You're just some random dumbass on the internet. I'd think it more likely that you're talking about things in which you don't really believe than someone who is openly investing a lot in their beliefs.

You just can't seem to accept the fact that people can have faith and lose it.

That being said, when I took my faith seriously, I did feel some measure of peace in the beginning. That lasted only as long as I could fool myself into thinking there had to be a good reason why the God I kept trying to talk to refused to answer. Then, it started having quite the opposite effect

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Ex-Christians are a very real threat to believers. They are living proof that anyone can lose his/her faith. That includes people like Drich

Wrong, they are only a threat to their eternal lives. The parable of the sower tells us who is vulnerable to this situation. Drich and the other Christians here are growing stronger daily.

GC

[Brakeman]

Ex-Christians are a very real threat to believers. They are living proof that anyone can lose his/her faith. That includes people like Drich

Wrong, they are only a threat to their eternal lives. The parable of the sower tells us who is vulnerable to this situation. Drich and the other Christians here are growing stronger daily.

GC

Right! The numerous inconsistencies, contradictions and illogical theological theist premises that are pointed out to them and force them to come up with convoluted excuses and wishful thinking strengthens their faith.
Our mocking laughter at your pitiful defenses of a god you have no evidence for must be very strengthening for you.

This is so sad.

[Drich]

No -- you are the one who is attempting to make a distention between a "true believer" and a "sincere believer" where there is none.

I love it when you guys so boldly and confidently over step. especially when I have already quoted something or leave a link.

I told cinny that Mat 7 Jesus himself make the distinction between a 'True believer' and a sincere believer. I even went so far as to say only Christ can identify a true believer. Evidently that was not enough to lets look at the actual passage.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Here Jesus identifies those who sincerly believe, for look at all thay have supposedly done in the name of Christ)22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
In Verse 23 we clearly see they were not 'True Believers' (cinny's term) As Christ clearly says He never knew them.

So again to tie all of this together as per the great works of the 'sincere believer' there are those who truly believe in what they are doing is for God, and Yet as per verse 23 Christ clearly says He never knew them.

Which means there is a distinct division between a 'sincere believer' and a 'True believer.'

If there were such a distinction then prove it.

See above.

Can a true believer be tested? Will it show up in a blood test? An MRI? EEG? Biopsy? Lie detecter? MMPI? Is there some way to determine conclusively who is or is not a true believer?

Let's look at what Jesus says in Mat 7. (Because He does give us a test) in verses 15-18
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...rsion=NKJV

I didn't think so.

Maybe you should leave the 'thinking' for the more experienced.

Again -- you are not really saying anything. Evidence or shut up.

And again you still provide no possible way to determine the difference in the real world. I have no choice but to say that there is no difference between the two. It is an arbitrary distinction.

One that Christ will make, and one that will determine your eternity.

This is a desperate attempt to maintain the 'no true xtian' fallacy because ex-xtians are a genuine threat to your faith.

Again, you don't seem to grasp the no true scotsmen fallacy.

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Greasy semantics sir. No difference where this argument is concerned. If you look up the word sincere in a thesaurus you will find the word true.

that is affirming the consequent.

This is just sophistry. You're desperately trying to explain away why so many people don't feel this unfathomable inner peace. These preachers/parishioners who have left the faith were not non-believers. By their own testimony, they were legitimate in every sense of the word and YOU have the nerve to simply write them off so that your primitive scribblings remain "true."

See what I wrote panter.

Well, to play by your rules than, I don't think for a moment that you're a legitimate follower of Christ. Many of the things you say are anti-Biblical

like....

and I know many fundamentalists who would disagree with you.

If you were gay, and if I knew gay people who would not agree with how you lived your life does that make you any less gay?

You may be sincere but you are definitely NOT a True Christian™, and since Jesus is the only one that can supposedly bestow this honor, I'm afraid you wont be finding out if you're going to heaven until it's too late to change. Do you think that's fair of me to say?

It would if I did not have a current on going relationship right now with Him through the Holy spirit.

This greasy rhetoric does not change the fact that YOU are not the decider of who is and who is not a True Christian™

Indeed. I am only here to point out there is a division between a sincere believer and a 'true believer.'

and even if you were correct about the occasional EX-believer, you sure as hell couldn't make this argument for the hundreds of thousands that never feel the kind of peace that your holy Babble promises.

Does the bible promise when we are to receive this peace? Matter of fact it says the oppsite doesn't it? That we are all different members of the same body of Christ and will experience and serve in Christianity in different ways.

Meaning some may experience ABC at the point of their conversion while other would experience 123 at their conversion, and if they stick with it long enough may get to experience the whole gambit of Spiritual fruit/gifts to one degree or another, unless they crap out because their 'faith' does not look like someone elses.

[Godlesspanther]

Again, you don't seem to grasp the no true scotsmen fallacy.

Again, desperate attempts to justify bullshit by quoting an ancient comic book.

Here is the fallacy laid out for you in a way that even you may be able to comprehend:

You are not a true xtian. Like it or not, know it or not, believe it or not, want it or not, care or not -- you are NOT a true xtian according to some other xtians.

I don't care who you are, what you do, what you believe, how jeezuzed-out you are, if you eat Bibles for breakfast and fart scripture -- you still are not a true xtian according to some other xtians -- there is no possible way around that.

There is no method of fact checking this -- other xtians who will label you a false xtian will use the same ancient comic book to prove it.

It can't be tested -- it's just one bullshit opinion against another bullshit opinion.

Case closed.

[Drich]

Ripped him a new one, Cinnie. Drippy must look like a swiss cheese by now.

Oh, yes cinny is got me on my heels, where do I go from here? Oh, no what will I do?

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Again, desperate attempts to justify bullshit by quoting an ancient comic book.

Here is the fallacy laid out for you in a way that even you may be able to comprehend:

You are not a true xtian. Like it or not, know it or not, believe it or not, want it or not, care or not -- you are NOT a true xtian according to some other xtians.

So... will these 'other christians' be conducting my final judgement or will Christ? If these 'other christians' have no say in my final judgement what do i care what they think about what I say or do?

I don't care who you are, what you do, what you believe, how jeezuzed-out you are, if you eat Bibles for breakfast and fart scripture -- you still are not a true xtian according to some other xtians -- there is no possible way around that.

So?

There is no method of fact checking this -- other xtians who will label you a false xtian will use the same ancient comic book to prove it.

So?

It can't be tested -- it's just one bullshit opinion against another bullshit opinion.

Actually it can. I provided you with a test. The results may vary, but that does not matter. Only the fact that there is a distinction and there are conditions that have to be met.

Case closed.

[Angrboda]

If your test is A/S/K, then I ask for a test of your test, being a way to verify that your test works properly and reliably.


As I recently told a creationist I spoke with at a table discussion who quoted the bible, as a Hindu, I can play the same game. As a Hindu, I have the Vedas, sruti and smriti. If all you've got is a book, I don't care what you have to say. If all you've got is a book, you're just talking out of your ass.