The Lie of the True Christian™

[Cinjin]

I've often directed new theist members using the No True Scotsman argument to this site.
Well, I now have first-person proof that preachers leave the faith. On Wednesday of this week I personally met a former pentecostal black preacher.

I know I know ... you probably think I'm full of shit. I mean what is the likelihood of meeting not only a former preacher turned atheist, but a pentecostal who also happens to be a BLACK man?!? I mean seriously, the odds I would randomly meet this individual have got to be about as good as a chance meeting with Barack Obama. On my son's life though, this is the complete truth.

Anyway, read the following to understand where I'm going with this.




A question presented on Yahoo and the #1 chosen answer:
What is "the peace that passeth all understanding" that Jesus gives to Christians?

That peace is what you receive once you surrender all to Christ. Surrender everything in your life to Him completely. It's hard for us to do that........to trust that completely. Even when you go through hard and difficult times, you KNOW that God and Christ are with you and that your circumstances will recover in such a way as to see you through.
It is the inner calmness promised to the believer who has a thankful attitude based on unwavering confidence that God is able and willing to do what is best for them. Their trust in Him brings about a peace that transcends human intellect, and human analysis. This peace guards, a military term meaning "to keep watch over". God's peace guards the believer from anxiety, fear, and worry because of their trust in Him.

My argument has always been this:
NO ONE would EVER give that kind of peace away if it was real. NO ONE. You couldn't read a man enough history books, or convince a man with enough evidence, or offer him anything on this earth that would EVER sway him to get rid of something that offered that kind of unfathomable inner peace.

And Yet ...
There I sat with a former black pentecostal preacher who left his faith behind because quote, "it simply isn't real."
To me this has always been the final nail in the casket of christianity. When even the devout shepherd of the flock can turn his back on this supposed "peace that passeth all understanding" you can be sure that it was always just another big fat lie from the bible.


So much for the No True Christian argument.

[Drich]

Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

[freedomfromforum]

Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

Cinjin called it in the first sentence of the OP.

I've often directed new theist members using the No True Scotsman argument to this site.

[Godlesspanther]

Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

I think that most preachers are sincere -- they actually do believe their own bullshit.

There are exceptions. Ken Ham and other creationists on the leadership level are lying and they know it. David Barton and other Xtian nationalists are lying and they know it. Benny Hinn and other faith healers are lying and they know it.

But for the most part, people who claim to be Xtians really do believe that idiotic crap. And those who abandon the faith are usually people who really believed it at one time.

I don't count for this thread. I have never been religious. I have never been a Xtian for one single second of my entire life.

[Bipolar Bob]

When I first became a practicing Christian I felt a high level of inner peace, I felt so much inner peace I got addicted to inner peace and needed more inner peace to get by. So to get my fix of inner peace I would go to more religious events and get my fix. Then the high eventually wore off and I couldn't get inner peace anymore...

[freedomfromforum]

When I first became a practicing Christian I felt a high level of inner peace, I felt so much inner peace I got addicted to inner peace and needed more inner peace to get by. So to get my fix of inner peace I would go to more religious events and get my fix. Then the high eventually wore off and I couldn't get inner peace anymore...

Religious addiction is a real issue. I've lost several friends to the madness.

[Drich]

Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

Cinjin called it in the first sentence of the OP.

I've often directed new theist members using the No True Scotsman argument to this site.

Then maybe you and cinny don't know what no true Scotsmen really is.

Because asking if someone really believes in what they teach, has nothing to do with the fallacy.

Pentecostals especially, do not have to have much if any formal training, they just need to be dynamic speakers, and a group of people willing to shake rattle and roll on Sunday mornings. If they get into it even with a weak faith, they can quickly prop themselves up with money, and adoration from the church. But, once that goes away so does their faith and confidence. They see their success as a measure of the power of God. If they make it God is real if they don't none of it is real. Never mind the fact that God may not want to support a ministry like the one they are selling. This can all be boiled down to simple pride. Pride is an identifiable quantifiable sin, and therefore disqualifies this condition as a 'no true Scotsmen' fallacy.

[Captain Colostomy]

[thesummerqueen]

Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

You're a walking fallacy.

[Godlesspanther]

Cinjin called it in the first sentence of the OP.

Then maybe you and cinny don't know what no true Scotsmen really is.

Because asking if someone really believes in what they teach, has nothing to do with the fallacy.

Pentecostals especially, do not have to have much if any formal training, they just need to be dynamic speakers, and a group of people willing to shake rattle and roll on Sunday mornings. If they get into it even with a weak faith, they can quickly prop themselves up with money, and adoration from the church. But, once that goes away so does their faith and confidence. They see their success as a measure of the power of God. If they make it God is real if they don't none of it is real. Never mind the fact that God may not want to support a ministry like the one they are selling. This can all be boiled down to simple pride. Pride is an identifiable quantifiable sin, and therefore disqualifies this condition as a 'no true Scotsmen' fallacy.

You are the one who does not understand the 'no true christian' fallacy.

Either a true Xtian is anyone who claims to be one, or trying to pin down a definition is like trying to nail jello to a tree.