Christians worship a Devil

[Polaris]

The funny thing is all that Satan ever did was oppose this. And he is supposed to be evil.

I thought Satan amongst the monotheistic religions (Islam comes to mind) wanted to rule over humanity much more despotically than God.

[Chad32]

That's the claim, but with the values dissonance involved it can be hard to tell what would really be worse. Some say the way things are being run now is because of the devil, but some places have greatly improved despite religions. Not because of them.

[Lek]

God is loving, but he is also just and he does have wrath. Before Adam sinned he knew no death or suffering, but afterwards that all changed. Any of us who have sinned also share in the sin of Adam. God was perfectly just in his actions taken in the old testament. The people he killed were going to die regardless. It's not like they were innocent. Look at how the ancient civilizations lived. They worshiped idols and sacrificed their own children and make war on other nations. If any of those who died were truly after God, then they are in a better place now enjoying their reward. We're all deserving of the same thing and there is no way to repay it. God showed his love for us in that he became man through his son Jesus, who lived the perfect life and by his death paid the debt that we as sinners could not pay. Jesus suffered God's justice and wrath for us. We can all avoid eternal death by our faith in the one who saved us, not by living a good life. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If we don't we have eternal death. His love is shown by his sacrifice for us, which was for us all. We can accept it or not. He won't force us. It's you're option love him or not.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Yeah, book of job is a problem. As the video says God essentially let's Satan torture the guy to make a point! And as for the reward, he killed the guys family! If someone killed my family to make a point, then offered me a bunch of cash and a new family to make it up to me, I'd be kinda pissed!

[Chad32]

Actually I don't think he loves us at all. He might claim to love us, but claims mean nothing. actions speak louder, and Yahweh's actions don't speak well of him. He loves himself, and wants to be surrounded by people who tell him how great he is. Anyone who doesn't is put though a world of pain. We usually call those people sociopaths.

[là bạn điên]

God is loving, but he is also just and he does have wrath.

He commits genocide-what is just about that

Before Adam sinned he knew no death or suffering, but afterwards that all changed. Any of us who have sinned also share in the sin of Adam.

When you say 'sin' you mean do something God doesn;t like?

God was perfectly just in his actions taken in the old testament.

This will be good!

The people he killed were going to die regardless.

So its OK to kill anyone because everyone will die anyway

It's not like they were innocent. Look at how the ancient civilizations lived.

According to who?

They worshiped idols and sacrificed their own children and make war on other nations.

What is so evil about worshipping idols? Sacrificing children? Like what God told Abraham? Made war? Thats what God demanded the Hebrews did.

If any of those who died were truly after God, then they are in a better place now enjoying their reward. We're all deserving of the same thing and there is no way to repay it. God showed his love for us in that he became man through his son Jesus, who lived the perfect life and by his death paid the debt that we as sinners could not pay. Jesus suffered God's justice and wrath for us. We can all avoid eternal death by our faith in the one who saved us, not by living a good life. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If we don't we have eternal death. His love is shown by his sacrifice for us, which was for us all. We can accept it or not. He won't force us. It's you're option love him or not.

But if you don;t love him you will be tortured for eternity. Yeah that's really a choice.

[Jacob(smooth)]

What is so evil about worshipping idols? Sacrificing children? Like what God told Abraham? Made war? Thats what God demanded the Hebrews did.

Ouch. Burn.

As in astute and cutting point well made, I'm not like threatening you with hell or Nuffin.

---

This is where I have a hard time reconciling the God of my experience with the God of the bible.

e. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If we don't we have eternal death. His love is shown by his sacrifice for us, which was for us all. We can accept it or not. 

This is fairly standard doctrine. But it reduces salvation to a question of an intelligence test (from Gods perspective). He scatters clues, most of them in ancient scrolls, the same MO used by all the FALSE religions. They are distributed unevenly, so you have access to more or less depending on when you were born. He gives a few really big, unequivocal, undeniable miracles (like the resurrection and ascension) but nothing since. Then he sits back and watches us flail around trying to decide if events which took place 2000 years ago were legit or not. If you believe they were, pass to heaven. If not, go directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect £200.

Makes no sense. I mean, it's not fair. To make it a choice as to whether to follow God on merit, surely he would need to give everyone clear evidence that he existed first, THEN make a choice. Not this cosmic peekaboo Bullshit. If massive and obvious manifestations of his presence worked in E OT, Why not do them now?! The usual argument is that this would interfere with free will, but that never seemed to be a problem in the bible. When did God turn shy?

[Esquilax]

God is loving, but he is also just and he does have wrath. Before Adam sinned he knew no death or suffering, but afterwards that all changed. Any of us who have sinned also share in the sin of Adam.

How can you begin "god is just," and then go on to say "you are being held responsible for a crime you did not commit"? How is it that you can square those two premises in your head?

God was perfectly just in his actions taken in the old testament. The people he killed were going to die regardless. It's not like they were innocent.

None of the people were innocent. Not one baby. Not one toddler. Not even the one day old, barely alive at all. Not innocent. At all?

Would I be justified in killing a baby, Lek? If not, then why are you holding me to a greater moral standard than you are your god?

Incidentally, it's not just killing that we're talking about, here. Sometimes it was kidnapping virgin women as slave brides, or the prizes of war. Was that just too? Oh, and killing all the cattle in the fields just because they were the enemy's, were those animals sharing in the sin of Adam too?

Look at how the ancient civilizations lived. They worshiped idols and sacrificed their own children and make war on other nations.

And so the solution you find is just, the punishment for these actions that they deserved... was for another tribe- who from the perspective of those ancient peoples were worshiping their own idol, by the way- to come in, sacrifice all their children (sans virgins, of course) to their god, making war on their nation in the process?

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that age old christian moral tradition, the catch cry of the just and the good everywhere: "Two wrongs make a right."

If any of those who died were truly after God, then they are in a better place now enjoying their reward.

And so the moral way to accomplish that, for these people you've just admitted had been forgiven their sins, would be to have them die peacefully in their sleep, not be brutally murdered over the bodies of their families and loved ones by an invading horde of people for whom their deaths weren't even justified. That's something god could have done, being all powerful.

Oh, and we're still forgetting all those virgin women who were truly after god, who spent their lives serving and being raped by the men who murdered their families. Cheery, no? Definitely just!

We're all deserving of the same thing and there is no way to repay it.

There's also no debt, because nothing we could possibly do could ever incur a single cost to god. I just find it interesting how you and people like you are willing to put god's baseless hurt feelings above the lives and eternal suffering of countless billions.

Tell your deity to nut up and put his big girl panties on, for fuck's sake.

God showed his love for us in that he became man through his son Jesus, who lived the perfect life and by his death paid the debt that we as sinners could not pay.

And yet a court today would call that a miscarriage of justice. Why are our courts held to a superior moral standard than your god?

Jesus suffered God's justice and wrath for us. We can all avoid eternal death by our faith in the one who saved us, not by living a good life. If we believe in him we have eternal life. If we don't we have eternal death. His love is shown by his sacrifice for us, which was for us all. We can accept it or not. He won't force us. It's you're option love him or not.

Is there anyone here who actually buys this? "Believe in me or go to hell," but he won't force us? I mean, come on.

[Lek]

God isn't a one-dimentional being. The bible shows his many aspects and everything he does is just. He's a lot like us because we were created in his image. He loves, but he can get angry. He's also just and if he says he's going to do something, he does it. Poor misunderstood Satan knew what would would happen if Adam ate from the tree and he purposely tempted him to do it. Yes, God commanded us to worship him. He's the creator and we're the creation. We like to think we're good, wonderful people when we're not. We've made the world into a dump. Anybody think the world is a great and happy place? I'm happy, but not because I love the world, but because I have hope in God. Pride is one of the hardest things for humans to overcome, but Christians live our lives in subjegation to God's will. Like I said before, he showed his great love for us by paying the price for us. Eternal life is ours for the taking. Not just for a few, but for everyone who ever lived. If he forced us to be with him, he wouldn't be loving. Why should he take you into heaven kicking and screaming when you don't want to go? That sounds like love to me when he's offering us all eternal happiness, yet we still must pay the consequences of our sins here on earth. That's justice.

[Belac Enrobso]

^ God sucks donkey dick. He swallows the fruit of his labor as well. Sick bastard.