Time to fight back: RANT

[Whateverist]

What strikes me as odd in all this is talk of foreigners who come here and make no effort to assimilate into our culture.

I would have thought a 'melting pot' of cultures was a culinary reference. If there is any such thing as a Murican culture surely it would carry traces of all the flavors that go into it.

But I get the impression that some here think think the purpose of the melting pot is to strip away all vestiges of an immigrants old culture. So the melting pot is something like an acid bath.

I'm reminded of that movie "Gangs of New York". There it was easy to see that most of the stress was between those born here and the new arrivals. What a sense of entitlement those who were born here felt. Hazing and exploiting the new comers was part of that. Somehow once a person has been born here then it just seems right that every policy should advantage their kind. Make the newcomers prove themselves worthy by humbly emulating everything about us.

If someone wants to live in a homogenous community which reflects their own origins they have that option here. But if gated, English only, white communities are permitted why not Spanish speaking communities? This is a country of new comers and their descendents. I don't accept the privileged place given to descendents of Pilgrims. The Spanish were in the new world before them. Hell, they were in California before them too. I don't speak Spanish well at all but I respect those who do. I don't ask for any laws that make a virtue of my ignorance.

There, now I feel better. Rant over.

[Losty]

What strikes me as odd in all this is talk of foreigners who come here and make no effort to assimilate into our culture.

I would have thought a 'melting pot' of cultures was a culinary reference. If there is any such thing as a Murican culture surely it would carry traces of all the flavors that go into it.

But I get the impression that some here think think the purpose of the melting pot is to strip away all vestiges of an immigrants old culture. So the melting pot is something like an acid bath.

I'm reminded of that movie "Gangs of New York". There it was easy to see that most of the stress was between those born here and the new arrivals. What a sense of entitlement those who were born here felt. Hazing and exploiting the new comers was part of that. Somehow once a person has been born here then it just seems right that every policy should advantage their kind. Make the newcomers prove themselves worthy by humbly emulating everything about us.

If someone wants to live in a homogenous community which reflects their own origins they have that option here. But if gated, English only, white communities are permitted why not Spanish speaking communities? This is a country of new comers and their descendents. I don't accept the privileged place given to descendents of Pilgrims. The Spanish were in the new world before them. Hell, they were in California before them too. I don't speak Spanish well at all but I respect those who do. I don't ask for any laws that make a virtue of my ignorance.

There, now I feel better. Rant over.

This

[Napoléon]

It's been said by Cinjin. People going off on a tangent like whateverist (I don't mean any offense by this) are trying to paint the voices of myself and others with some kind of brush as though we are against foreign cultures. That's totally not what anyone of my opinion has said on this thread as far as I have seen.

---

I'm sorry to harp on this, but I respect you, Cin, and I'm fully taken aback by you saying that to me. I didn't say anything like what you accused me of, and I'd kind of like an apology.

Who were you aiming this remark at then??

Your rant just seems like a racist bitchfest from where I'm sitting.

Seemed to me like it was aimed at Cinjin and perhaps even myself (on top of BlackSwordsman). I don't think he owes you an apology.

[BlackSwordsman]

What strikes me as odd in all this is talk of foreigners who come here and make no effort to assimilate into our culture.

I would have thought a 'melting pot' of cultures was a culinary reference. If there is any such thing as a Murican culture surely it would carry traces of all the flavors that go into it.

But I get the impression that some here think think the purpose of the melting pot is to strip away all vestiges of an immigrants old culture. So the melting pot is something like an acid bath.

I'm reminded of that movie "Gangs of New York". There it was easy to see that most of the stress was between those born here and the new arrivals. What a sense of entitlement those who were born here felt. Hazing and exploiting the new comers was part of that. Somehow once a person has been born here then it just seems right that every policy should advantage their kind. Make the newcomers prove themselves worthy by humbly emulating everything about us.

If someone wants to live in a homogenous community which reflects their own origins they have that option here. But if gated, English only, white communities are permitted why not Spanish speaking communities? This is a country of new comers and their descendents. I don't accept the privileged place given to descendents of Pilgrims. The Spanish were in the new world before them. Hell, they were in California before them too. I don't speak Spanish well at all but I respect those who do. I don't ask for any laws that make a virtue of my ignorance.

There, now I feel better. Rant over.

Great but not quite.

Yes yes all well in good origins of speech and what not,

Forgetting the laws, customs, and what not and cutting straight through to the, they were here first.

Were not the Indians here first, we all saw how that worked out.

Funny I always thought of the 'Melting Pot' having less to do with 'hostile takeover of foreign lands and more to a reference of My family came from Germany (LEGALLY), settled into a nighborhood where my neighbors came from (ITALY - LEGALLY) and there friends came from Mexico - LEGALLY, and we all reside here.

I don't recall it meaning that everyone comes over here to this land and refuse to change.

Cool you came from *insert origin* but this is america, where english is the main language, if you wanted to speak *insert language* and live in *insert origin* then this is not the place.

Melting pot never meant to invading and refusing to change to your new land, it meant there was a melting of culture, there was a little of this a little of that, it was not all ONE culture.

Sorry to say but if you want to live, act, and speak like you live in *insert origin* then perhaps you should have stayed there.

What if all the english speaking people ran to mexico, forced their culture on mexico (won't happen, mexico has strict border control). We all speak english, we all act like we are living in america, brought all our tendencies to mexico, sorry can't eat that it doesn't look 'clean'.

Forcing mexico to learn our language because WE decided we didn't want to live in our country anymore.

Same with any country.

[Autumnlicious]

Cinjin, Napoleon, BSM -

If multiple people are independently arriving at similar conclusions to my own, perhaps y'all are representing yourselves closer to nativist douchebags than you intend.

Then again, I know nothing.

[Napoléon]

If multiple people are independently arriving at similar conclusions to my own, perhaps y'all are representing yourselves closer to nativist douchebags than you intend.

Or maybe you're the douchebag and should take what we say at face value instead of attributing your own ideas to what we have said.

And if in doubt about what we actually mean, ask, rather than make a ridiculous assumption and make out like we're arguing for things we're not.

[BlackSwordsman]

Then again, I know nothing.

I agree



But out of all honesty, yes the fact they come from all cultures is what makes a melting pot.

Not refusing to follow laws or customs

Not being inconsiderate, or being a burden on the land they came to

Not forcing others to meet THEIR needs over the native citizens because they 'can't be bothered'

A melting pot is a blend, what made this country amazing was that they use to work together. Now people come in and EXPECT things.

10.5 million, have crossed the border illegally and are flouting U.S. law.

Most illegals live in California (2.6 million), Texas (1.8 million), and Florida (604,000), meaning three states alone account for more than five million or 46 percent of the illegal population. Adding in Illinois (505,000) and New York (480,000) brings the total to about six million, which means about 57 percent of illegals live in just five states. More than 50 percent live in four states.

Given that illegals tend to earn less money and live in poverty, they are also prone to use welfare. In Texas, for instance, 58 percent of illegal households collect some form of welfare, CIS reported, with 49 percent using food assistance and 41 percent using Medicaid. In California and Illinois, 55 percent use welfare. The list of states goes down from there.

Nationally, 47 percent of illegals use welfare; 39 percent use food assistance and 35 percent use Medicaid.

As one would imagine, a population of more than 10 million illegals is a crushing burden on public schools. Illegals are 1.3 million of the school-age population and about 2.4 percent of 5- to 17-year-olds, CIS reported. Taxpayers provide some $40 billion to educate illegals and their offspring.

But that's all I know

source and stuff

[Losty]

What if all the english speaking people ran to mexico, forced their culture on mexico (won't happen, mexico has strict border control). We all speak english, we all act like we are living in america, brought all our tendencies to mexico, sorry can't eat that it doesn't look 'clean'.

Yep that doesn't sound racist at all.

What I don't get is, who are you to say what "American culture" is? Yea yea I get it you don't like illegal immigrants. You could have said that. Started a thread with the OP "there are too many illegal Mexicans where I live".
I've got news for you, all of those foreigners who live near you are not mexican. Most, probably, but definitely not all. I have several Hispanic friends who chose to live in LA because they like that most people speak Spanish, none of them are Mexican and all of them speak English, and none of them are illegal immigrants. I get that you think people should assimilate. I agree to an extent, but people should be free to act and speak however they feel comfortable in their own homes and neighborhoods.
When I first got married I lived in a certain part of town where the rent was super cheap. All of my neighbors were natural born American citizens. They were loud, rude, annoying, and not a single one of them spoke a word of English as far as I could tell. Then again I learned English in Ohio and that was in South Georgia so, you know.

The reason people assume you are racist is because you seem to dislike foreigners for things that many if not most people in this country are guilty of. In America every community has its own culture. So, if anything, I'd say you are a foreigner in LA and you need to assimilate to their culture.

[Autumnlicious]

Or maybe you're the douchebag and should take what we say at face value instead of attributing your own ideas to what we have said.

Because there never is an agenda behind anti-immigration sentiment?

Give me a break - I'm not falling for that canard.

And if in doubt about what we actually mean, ask, rather than make a ridiculous assumption and make out like we're arguing for things we're not.

Smoke, meet fire.

As I said, if others are perceiving you differently, perhaps you're doing a shitty job at representing your position.

As it stands you look like you have more in common with Mehmet's views on immigration.

Perhaps you do. Who knows without clarification.

I do see a lot of:

Foreigners are a problem!
It is an unsolvable problem!
Foreigners are making me feel like I'm not in my country!

[Napoléon]

Because there never is an agenda behind anti-immigration sentiment?

Give me a break - I'm not falling for that canard.

Where the fuck did I or Cinjin or BlackSwordsman say we were anti-immigration? Quit with the bullshit Moros. Nobody has said anything of the sort. Continue misconstruing everything we've said. What a load of tripe.