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Abortion and Women's Rights
May 28, 2014 at 11:22 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2014 at 11:26 am by Rampant.A.I..)
(May 27, 2014 at 10:34 pm)Artur Axmann Wrote: (May 27, 2014 at 10:26 pm)Bittersmart Wrote: There are plenty of reasons. Off the top of my head:
Not ready to be a mother, yet
Cannot afford a child
Birth defect in fetus
Was raped and impregnated
Health of the mother in jeopardy
I'm sure there are more.
not totally a healthy life in the womb..
"Not ready to be a mother, yet
Cannot afford a child"
The needs of the nation come first in both these instances!
Ahh, so all women should be state-controlled baby factories in your view then, no matter their level of poverty or personal needs.
(May 28, 2014 at 10:10 am)alpha male Wrote: (May 25, 2014 at 12:32 pm)Tea Earl Grey Hot Wrote: It's claimed that the pro-life movement really exists because pro-lifers don't want women to be equals with men. Being anti-abortion in other words is one major way they can bolster traditional patriarchy. If that's the case, then why are so many pro-lifers women? From my experience, the most vocal (and annoying) pro-lifers are women. Are these women wanting to limit their own freedom? Are they wanting to be subservient to men? Why? Because most of them have been pregnant and had children and from their experience believe that an unborn child is a life with value.
That's why they're subservient to men?
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm by Coffee Jesus.)
(May 25, 2014 at 12:32 pm)Tea Earl Grey Hot Wrote: It's claimed that the pro-life movement really exists because pro-lifers don't want women to be equals with men. Being anti-abortion in other words is one major way they can bolster traditional patriarchy. If that's the case, then why are so many pro-lifers women? From my experience, the most vocal (and annoying) pro-lifers are women. Are these women wanting to limit their own freedom? Are they wanting to be subservient to men? Why?
Women can have traditional sexual attitudes too.
two-thirds of pro-lifers believed that promiscuity was immoral, and an even higher proportion of pro-life women:
This might be outdated, but the NHSLS found that sexual-moral attitudes broke down into 7 clusters, two of which mostly rejected the statement "A woman should be able to obtain a legal abortion if she wants it for any reason." The two clusters were the Pro-Life subgroup of Recrational, and the Conservative subgroup of Traditional. Overall, the former believed premarital sex was okay, and the latter overwhelmingly believed that premarital sex was "always wrong". 8.7% of respondents belonged to the former, and 15.2% belonged to the latter. That's roughly a 1:2 ratio. Furthermore, women were more likely than men to belong to one of the Traditional clusters. In other words, more than two-thirds of pro-life women held traditional views on sexual morality.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 28, 2014 at 2:29 pm
(May 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm)Coffee Jesus Wrote: (May 25, 2014 at 12:32 pm)Tea Earl Grey Hot Wrote: It's claimed that the pro-life movement really exists because pro-lifers don't want women to be equals with men. Being anti-abortion in other words is one major way they can bolster traditional patriarchy. If that's the case, then why are so many pro-lifers women? From my experience, the most vocal (and annoying) pro-lifers are women. Are these women wanting to limit their own freedom? Are they wanting to be subservient to men? Why?
Women can have traditional sexual attitudes too.
two-thirds of pro-lifers believed that promiscuity was immoral, and an even higher proportion of pro-life women:
This might be outdated, but the NHSLS found that sexual-moral attitudes broke down into 7 clusters, two of which mostly rejected the statement "A woman should be able to obtain a legal abortion if she wants it for any reason." The two clusters were the Pro-Life subgroup of Recrational, and the Conservative subgroup of Traditional. Overall, the former believed premarital sex was okay, and the latter overwhelmingly believed that premarital sex was "always wrong". 8.7% of respondents belonged to the former, and 15.2% belonged to the latter. That's roughly a 1:2 ratio. Furthermore, women were more likely than men to belong to one of the Traditional clusters. In other words, more than two-thirds of pro-life women held traditional views on sexual morality.
This is why I say the so-called "pro-life" movement is really anti-sex. If the pro-lifers were honest, they are less concerned about a fetus and more about making a woman "take responsibility for her actions".
The pretext is exposed when a pro-lifer would "allow" abortion in the case of rape. Really? You really believe the fetus is a living being with a right to life that you and I have, but it's OK to suspend that right if the conception was during a rape? Isn't that punishing the child for the crimes of the father? You think that's OK?
However, if the motive is slut-shaming and punishing the Jezebel, then the exception for rape makes sense, at least to pro-lifers who are progressive enough to realize that the rape isn't her fault.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 28, 2014 at 2:43 pm
Not just anti-sex, but anti-woman, to be specific.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 29, 2014 at 8:16 am
(May 28, 2014 at 2:29 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: The pretext is exposed when a pro-lifer would "allow" abortion in the case of rape. Really? You really believe the fetus is a living being with a right to life that you and I have, but it's OK to suspend that right if the conception was during a rape? Isn't that punishing the child for the crimes of the father? You think that's OK? For me, and I assume for many others, this is a matter of idealism v. practicality. I don't think it's morally correct to abort in the case of rape, but I'm "OK" with making that concession if it would reduce abortion overall.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 29, 2014 at 8:18 am
Oh so you would be OK with having a rape baby then?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 29, 2014 at 8:24 am
(May 29, 2014 at 8:18 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Oh so you would be OK with having a rape baby then? Huh? Slow down and use your big boy words. 
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 29, 2014 at 8:33 am
(May 29, 2014 at 8:24 am)alpha male Wrote: Huh? Slow down and use your big boy words.
Great dodge! I'm assuming from your evasion of the question that you would not want to keep a pregnancy that resulted in someone raping you. Why do you think that is immoral and why do you think you have the right to force women to carry these rape babies to term?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 29, 2014 at 8:36 am
(May 29, 2014 at 8:33 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Great dodge! It's not a dodge. "OK with having a rape baby" is ambiguous. Slow down and pose your question with detail and clarity and I'll answer it.
Quote:I'm assuming from your evasion of the question that you would not want to keep a pregnancy that resulted in someone raping you. Why do you think that is immoral and why do you think you have the right to force women to carry these rape babies to term?
Again, it's not evasion, and your assumption is wrong.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 29, 2014 at 8:48 am
(May 29, 2014 at 8:36 am)alpha male Wrote: It's not a dodge. "OK with having a rape baby" is ambiguous. Slow down and pose your question with detail and clarity and I'll answer it.
You know exactly what I meant, again, you are just trying to avoid answering the question and to be frank, that is pathetic.
(May 29, 2014 at 8:36 am)alpha male Wrote: Again, it's not evasion, and your assumption is wrong.
Yes it is and what assumption?
You literally said, you don't think it is morally correct to abort a rape baby.
I then asked you if you were raped, would you want to carry this rape baby around with you for nine months and then give birth to it?
If your answer is no, then why should women have to?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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