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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 5:52 pm
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2014 at 5:54 pm by GrandizerII.)
(May 31, 2014 at 5:47 pm)alpha male Wrote: (May 31, 2014 at 4:18 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: OK, then since it's all just a matter of personal opinion, then you can use it to determine when YOU have an abortion and let other people make their own choices. I noted some time ago that I have no objective in this matter. It's been settled law in the U.S. for decades.
Plus, I can say the same to you, as you seem to think that abortion after 21 weeks is murder or akin to it.
Are people who eat meat accomplices to murder because animals think?
Quote:The woman's right to make choices over her own life and control her own body is not in dispute. The point of debate is over whether or not these rights are trumped by some other factor.
Interesting...her own body. A fetus has a body prior to 21 weeks.
(May 31, 2014 at 4:37 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: No brain, no pain.
That's kind of been my point in this whole thread. If pain is the dividing line, then it's moral to kill anyone, as long as it's done painlessly.
And while I think your star wars bit is silly, if we build robots which think but don't feel pain, they apparently don't have any rights.
It still boils down to whether or not there is any valid reason to trump woman's right to abort. Have you come up with any in this thread. I tried to think of one, but even that is not good enough.
Also, no, I don't believe it's moral to kill anyone for no compelling reason.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 6:51 pm
(May 31, 2014 at 4:04 pm)alpha male Wrote: Did you guys miss this?
Quote:Of course it does. All definitions of personhood have problems. That's why it gets discussed and people end up with different opinions.
I already acknowledged that DNA has problems. I could alter it to DNA plus another factor - and that would still have problems. Consciousness and self-awareness have been proposed by others. They have their merits, but one could also show problems with them. Each person chooses as they see fit. Different people give different weights to different factors. What's the problem? I don't get why you're all having trouble dealing with this.
I think my problem is that a slobbery cotton swab has DNA but that doesn't make it a person or give it rights.
If all you have are your opinions, then all you have is a right to make decisions for yourself only.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2014 at 7:57 pm by John V.)
(May 31, 2014 at 5:52 pm)Irrational Wrote: It still boils down to whether or not there is any valid reason to trump woman's right to abort. Have you come up with any in this thread. I tried to think of one, but even that is not good enough. DP acknowledges that a person's right to life trumps a woman's desire to abort, so it continues to boil down to the definition of a person.
(May 31, 2014 at 6:51 pm)Losty Wrote: I think my problem is that a slobbery cotton swab has DNA but that doesn't make it a person or give it rights. According to DP a cow has thoughts, but that doesn't make it a person or give it a right to life. Why don't you point that out?
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 8:03 pm
(May 31, 2014 at 7:55 pm)alpha male Wrote: (May 31, 2014 at 6:51 pm)Losty Wrote: I think my problem is that a slobbery cotton swab has DNA but that doesn't make it a person or give it rights. According to DP a cow has thoughts, but that doesn't make it a person or give it a right to life. Why don't you point that out?
I actually considered pointing out your reaction, but I had decided you were being deliberately obtuse. Hundreds of years of studies and scientists still do not believe animals have conscious thought. Do they think? Sure, but not the way we do.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 8:55 pm
(May 31, 2014 at 8:03 pm)Losty Wrote: I actually considered pointing out your reaction, but I had decided you were being deliberately obtuse. Hundreds of years of studies and scientists still do not believe animals have conscious thought. Do they think? Sure, but not the way we do. DP said it, not me.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm
(May 31, 2014 at 8:55 pm)alpha male Wrote: DP said it, not me.
And did he ever equate animal thought to human thought? I think not. You are misrepresenting what he said.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2014 at 9:05 pm by Losty.)
I must have missed it. I thought DP said something about people thinking and then you came back with, duhhhh cows can think
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:43 pm
(May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm)Losty Wrote: I must have missed it. I thought DP said something about people thinking and then you came back with, duhhhh cows can think
DP is really an unfortunate nickname for any thread having to do with contraception.
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
May 31, 2014 at 9:49 pm
(May 31, 2014 at 9:43 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: (May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm)Losty Wrote: I must have missed it. I thought DP said something about people thinking and then you came back with, duhhhh cows can think
DP is really an unfortunate nickname for any thread having to do with contraception.
You'll have to spell it out for me, I never get these jokes.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
June 1, 2014 at 8:28 am
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2014 at 8:29 am by John V.)
(May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: And did he ever equate animal thought to human thought? I think not. You are misrepresenting what he said. Yes, I'm mocking the silly crap I'm getting about a person's DNA being determined at conception.
(May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm)Losty Wrote: I must have missed it. I thought DP said something about people thinking and then you came back with, duhhhh cows can think I'm mocking crap like duhhh, cells have DNA, are they persons too.
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