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(June 10, 2014 at 8:02 am)naimless Wrote: His father stopped associating with him because he was a cunt, not because he was an atheist.
I don't boast publicly about my beliefs or lack of them on Facebook as I would not like to read someone else doing the same about theirs.
I have respectfully declined to attend the churches of my parents on many occasions. Occasionally they will still try and convince me to go, like on Christmas.
Sometimes I will go because it is easier than spending the day having an argument, I am capable of respectfully observing another history/culture objectively, and I like presents and Christmas dinner.
Now, regarding the job situation, a lot of youths are struggling currently and it is probably best to keep as many friends as possible, even if you do not agree with their religion.
For the most part I have found Christians to be quite charitable people. I have also found that friends come and go more-so than family.
In short, OP wants to disown his father because his father is not an atheist.
Go back and read the post where Luckie tells you, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I assume you are some kind of theist or deist since your relgious views are 'other'. Why is it that theists are unable to see the guilt trips that this guys dad uses, the snyde comments about his job, and what is essentially blackmail.
You, like every theist seems to do, has made the mistake of assuming that because he is an atheist, he is cutting ties with his father. But it is the other way around. His father is cutting ties with him because of his atheism. The OP has already expressed he loves his father and wants to have a relationship with him. You're the troll, or if not, just have extremely bad reading comprehension skills.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
(June 10, 2014 at 8:02 am)naimless Wrote: His father stopped associating with him because he was a cunt, not because he was an atheist.
I don't boast publicly about my beliefs or lack of them on Facebook as I would not like to read someone else doing the same about theirs.
I have respectfully declined to attend the churches of my parents on many occasions. Occasionally they will still try and convince me to go, like on Christmas.
Sometimes I will go because it is easier than spending the day having an argument, I am capable of respectfully observing another history/culture objectively, and I like presents and Christmas dinner.
Now, regarding the job situation, a lot of youths are struggling currently and it is probably best to keep as many friends as possible, even if you do not agree with their religion.
For the most part I have found Christians to be quite charitable people. I have also found that friends come and go more-so than family.
In short, OP wants to disown his father because his father is not an atheist.
Go back and read the post where Luckie tells you, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I assume you are some kind of theist or deist since your relgious views are 'other'. Why is it that theists are unable to see the guilt trips that this guys dad uses, the snyde comments about his job, and what is essentially blackmail.
You, like every theist seems to do, has made the mistake of assuming that because he is an atheist, he is cutting ties with his father. But it is the other way around. His father is cutting ties with him because of his atheism. The OP has already expressed he loves his father and wants to have a relationship with him. You're the troll, or if not, just have extremely bad reading comprehension skills.
Your assumptions would be incorrect. I put other because it won't allow me to leave it blank. If I'm the troll, then you're the bite because you wanted my response. Just like the OP wants to disown his father. If he didn't he would respectfully come to a compromise.
(June 10, 2014 at 8:16 am)naimless Wrote: Your assumptions would be incorrect. I put other because it won't allow me to leave it blank.
Because you have no religious views? Or you just want to make talking to you harder as no-one will have a clue where you are coming from?
(June 10, 2014 at 8:16 am)naimless Wrote: If I'm the troll, then you're the bite because you wanted my response.
I want you to shut the fuck up and stop talking about things you don't understand.
(June 10, 2014 at 8:16 am)naimless Wrote: Just like the OP wants to disown his father.
Please quote the sentence of the OP that says that. What? You can't? Oh thats right, because he didn't say that at all, in-fact, he said the opposite.
(June 10, 2014 at 8:16 am)naimless Wrote: If he didn't he would respectfully come to a compromise.
You dumbass, his father was the disrespectful one, his father is the one with the problem. His father is the one isolating him for his beliefs. His father is the bigot who won't accept him because he believes differently.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
(June 10, 2014 at 12:46 am)elconquistador Wrote: It's just so incredibly messy right now that I don't think I'll pursue a relationship with my father until I've found my career route, started my schooling back up, started my business, found my volunteering route, and have my own place again. At that time my father will no longer have anything negative to say about my life and if he does...well I'll be confident to know he's wrong instead of allowing his pessimist sentiments to run my life like the past 21 years.
This sounds like a good plan to me. Not only will it give you time to focus on getting your life back in order, it'll give both of you time to clear your heads and put some distance between yourselves and this confrontation. It'll also give you time to plan your approach in how you would like to pursue your relationship with your father.
(June 10, 2014 at 8:02 am)naimless Wrote: I don't boast publicly about my beliefs or lack of them on Facebook as I would not like to read someone else doing the same about theirs.
Facebook is an opt-in website, and friending or following someone is opt-in, too. If you don't like the content of someone's posts you can hide them, unfriend them or block them if needs be, and the same goes for anyone who might not like what you post.
It isn't necessary for ElCon and his dad to be friends on facebook and it sounds like it would be better for their relationship if they weren't, but prescribing what someone should or shouldn't post on their own facebook page is ridiculous. ElCon's dad can unfriend him, or ElCon can unfriend his dad, but ElCon does not need to stop posting about how happy he is just to satisfy the whims of someone else.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
(June 10, 2014 at 10:35 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Because you have no religious views? Or you just want to make talking to you harder as no-one will have a clue where you are coming from?
Because when I put "atheist", 7/7 Dawkinsian cunts also thought they could claim the word and associate with me. When I put "agnostic", the idiots still didn't realise agnosticism and atheism weren't mutually exclusive. No matter what I put I get cunts like you up in my grille.
(June 10, 2014 at 10:35 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: I want you to shut the fuck up and stop talking about things you don't understand.
You were the one that asked for my opinion you fucking retard.
(June 10, 2014 at 10:35 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Please quote the sentence of the OP that says that. What? You can't? Oh thats right, because he didn't say that at all, in-fact, he said the opposite. You dumbass, his father was the disrespectful one, his father is the one with the problem. His father is the one isolating him for his beliefs. His father is the bigot who won't accept him because he believes differently.
His father identifies himself as a Mormon. OP said, "I shame your religion". He either accepts his father as a Mormon or he doesn't. Shaming him or his religion is not going to win any respect.
(June 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm)naimless Wrote: Because when I put "atheist", 7/7 Dawkinsian cunts also thought they could claim the word and associate with me. When I put "agnostic", the idiots still didn't realise agnosticism and atheism weren't mutually exclusive. No matter what I put I get cunts like you up in my grille.
I'm a cunt for asking where you stand on religion?
Atheism is a confession of what you believe.
Agnosticism is a claim regarding knowledge.
I, like most atheists, are agnostic atheists and we have no problem informing people about this.
'7/7 Dawkinsian cunts' as you so gracefully put it, are gnostic atheists, this means they claim to know that a god doesn't exist. Gnostic atheists are quite rare so I have a hard time believing that you are being 'persecuted' by them.
Here is a list of possible stances, please pick the one that you are.
Agnostic: atheist / theist/ deist / pantheist
Gnostic: atheist / theist / deist / pantheist.
Apparently you don't like labels, but if you want to have a worthwhile discussion with anyone about religion, first they will need to know what your stance is and unfortunately the easiest and quickest way is to use a label.
(June 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm)naimless Wrote: You were the one that asked for my opinion you fucking retard.
I never asked for your opinion 'you fucking retard'. Again, I question your reading comprehension skills.
(June 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm)naimless Wrote: His father identifies himself as a Mormon. OP said, "I shame your religion". He either accepts his father as a Mormon or he doesn't. Shaming him or his religion is not going to win any respect.
That says absolutely nothing about his intentions with regards to a relationship. I asked you to show me a sentance from the OP that showed that he wanted to disown his father. You have failed.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
I take that to be a confession that you were wrong and I was right.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
(June 3, 2014 at 12:57 pm)Raeven Wrote: You've done an amazing and difficult thing. You've escaped utter indoctrination. Many people can't, and it sounds like your dad is among those. For now, it sounds like you're going to have to live as though he is dead to you. There is no common ground at this point.
I don't know where you live, but it sounds like you need a network of support, and fast. I know I found a fantastic group of atheist friends through a Meet Up group. Ours is affiliated with Center for Inquiry - Skeptics. You might do a search for something similar through Meet Up and learn if there is a group near you. I know the biggest thing the formerly-religious folks who belong to my group miss is a sense of community that a church provides. The difference is, the Skeptic group comes with no strings attached. As you pointed out, they like you just because you're you. They may also be able to help you network for a new job and/or housing.
I'm sorry your dad is not going to be there for you at a time of your great need, but he obviously can't. His help comes with some pretty big strings attached. I don't think you can go back.
Best to you, and please keep us posted going forward.
You see, this is the kind of bullsh1t advice I'd been talking about.
You've taken one heated email conversation between father and son and then taken it upon yourself to advise he cuts of all ties with his father, because his father doesn't share the same beliefs as you?
Utterly incredible........if this advice was taken the world over, there would be literally millions of us with no family.
My, I certainly let this thread get away from me!
Look, Hoopington, cupcake, I'm not Mormon, but I grew up in Utah. I know a bit about the Mormons and the complete, cultish fealty they demand from their members. Shunning is a big tool in their toolbox. That is what the OP is experiencing. Before he can create any kind of new relationship with his father, he must fully repudiate the terms his father is currently offering -- which are not acceptable to him, the OP. Since the OP cannot comply with his father's demands to come back to the church, then the only option is for the OP to get on with his life -- as it seems he intends to do.
If at some point his father is able to draw a distinction between having a relationship with his son and having a relationship with his son with unreasonable demands attached, then possibly there will be an opportunity for a new relationship. His father has no right to demand that his son think certain things in order to have a relationship with him. Until Dad is ready to recognize that, what chance for a meaningful relationship can there be?
Sometimes the only choice you have is how best to lose.
The OP asked for advice, and this is mine. Like all advice, he is free to take it or leave it. Sorry that is so hard for you to grasp.
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