Why "mysterious ways" don't matter.

[davidMC1982]

Many of the issues with the "problem of evil" and "mysterious ways" would disappear if God were not considered infallible, omniscient or omnipotent. Since the bible represents the only "evidence" for the veracity of a Christian's claims, how much emphasis is placed on the infallibility of God? How does this differ between the Old and New Testament? They're genuine questions by the way.

[The Grand Nudger]

Absolutely. I'm ready to completely retract any theoretical statement I've ever made that somehow implies that god is a fucking cunt -

....just as soon as the faithful propose that their god is an incompetent.

[Chad32]

Many of the issues with the "problem of evil" and "mysterious ways" would disappear if God were not considered infallible, omniscient or omnipotent. Since the bible represents the only "evidence" for the veracity of a Christian's claims, how much emphasis is placed on the infallibility of God? How does this differ between the Old and New Testament? They're genuine questions by the way.

Yeah, I think claiming he's omnipotent/present/scient hindered more than helped. I get that they wanted their god to seem more powerful than any other god, but if you claim perfection then that means every little stumble is noticed all that much more.

You can't cut him slack for outdated beliefs because of this claim of perfection, so you have to bring it up.

[Jenny A]

Many of the issues with the "problem of evil" and "mysterious ways" would disappear if God were not considered infallible, omniscient or omnipotent. Since the bible represents the only "evidence" for the veracity of a Christian's claims, how much emphasis is placed on the infallibility of God? How does this differ between the Old and New Testament? They're genuine questions by the way.

Compare the OT view of god:

Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jeremiah 32:27

Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Isaiah 40:28

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Psalm 147:5

I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Job 42:2

Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; he reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him

Daniel 2:20-22

For behold, he who forms the mountains and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought, who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth— the Lord, the God of hosts, is his name!

Amos 4:13

With these NT descriptions:

But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Matthew 19:26

For nothing will be impossible with God.

Luke 1:37

And what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,

Ephesians 1:19-22

There is a difference. God takes a step from great power towards infallibility in the NT.

[Chad32]

Not only does Yahweh become infallible, but ha satan becomes a person instead of a title, on whom we can blame all evils. They put some effort into reworking Yahweh, likely to get new converts instead of just focusing on one chosen people.

[Ravenshire]

I don't think that the position that God causes an evil event to happen is defensible logically nor an accurate interpretation of the Bible.

So, gawd ordering the genocide (yes, genocide) of the Canaanites for nothing more heinous than presuming to live in the "promised land" before Moses and the rest showed up isn't an "evil event?"

If you let him off for being inscrutable, you must also let Hitler off. After all, he was claiming to be doing gawds work. Who are you to say he wasn't?!?

Mind you, that's just one example.

[The Grand Nudger]

While we're on the subject, lets remember that god gets pissy when you aren't a thorough genocidal fucker, he's just as apt to punish your sorry ass as he is to lay those pathetic non-humans in front of you low while you cling to his sword arm.

[Ravenshire]

Absolutely. I'm ready to completely retract any theoretical statement I've ever made that somehow implies that god is a fucking cunt -

....just as soon as the faithful propose that their god is an incompetent.

Hell, incompetent isn't even necessary. I would retract my statements about gawd if it simply proved to be Bruce Almighty. He was just doing the best he knew how.

[The Grand Nudger]

I reiterate - an incompetent.

[Ravenshire]

Good point!