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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 13, 2014 at 4:20 pm
Honestly, I'm not sure why christians carry on about abortion being morally/biblically wrong.
Their god slaughtered babies every chance he got. The OT reeks of bloodbath killings, in which babies were always included.
Here's a tender little verse that shows god's true compassion for the little ones...
Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
So if god is pissed off at the parents, that justifies abortion.
Touching huh! Bet they never teach this verse in sunday school.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 13, 2014 at 5:26 pm
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2014 at 5:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Of course they teach that in sunday school. That's how perfectly healthy children grow into fucked up adult christians.
(Hosea is one of my favorites btw, no shit)
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 13, 2014 at 6:19 pm
You know, I've always wondered the same thing about souls as Sam Harris. What about identical twins? One sperm, one egg, two kids. Do they each get half a soul? Does the fertilized egg get two souls so that each kid gets one? Does gawd grant a bonus soul when the split occurs?
Or, more disturbingly, what about chimeras? One person born of two fertilized eggs that fused. Did each egg get a soul? Does this person get to keep both or did she/he have to give one back?
The mathematics of souls in the womb is, of course, ridiculous. If only the christers would actually accept what their buy-bull says. The "soul," according to Genesis is the "breath of life." Their own mythology argues that a zygote, fetus, or whatever stage of development, cannot have a "soul" until birth.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 13, 2014 at 8:58 pm
And going further into 'soul' theory;
what of a space colony on Mars, and all the air there is mechanically manufactured from native rocky oxides and other minerals.
No Christian theist could possibly posit that the air there could possibly have in it nascent souls waiting for that first gasp of a newborn. So, are children birthed and raised on Mars soulless ? Are they therefore not 'Sons of Adam' and not even human beings ? Could a 'Christian' come up from earth and kill them as abominations and not be guilty of murder since a charge of murder presupposes a HUMAN was killed ?
Are these beings on Mars capable of being ensouled as adults upon returning to earth, and are they then fully human, or only human proportionally to the ratio of their time souled and unensouled ?
I think theologians need to jump on this and work it all out before it happens.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 13, 2014 at 10:04 pm
In a species labelled "man, the wise", I would argue that consciousness is one of our defining characteristics; and that calling an embryo human in the absence of consciousness having existed at all is questionable.
I've also got a big problem with legislators who cannot ever get pregnant determing what choices might be available to a woman who can.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 15, 2014 at 8:22 am
(July 13, 2014 at 4:20 pm)CindysRain Wrote: Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
omg how horribly anti-Christian and biased. You forgot that Hebrews regularly left out strongly implied passages. Here's the correct version:
. . . their infants shall be dashed in pieces ( lovingly), and their women with child shall be ripped up ( by the gossamer wings of angels).
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 20, 2014 at 9:51 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2014 at 9:53 am by Heywood.)
A person under general anesthesia isn't conscious either. Would it be okay for a scorned woman to kill her cheating husband while he is under general anesthesia? Of course not. Given time that person under general anesthesia will become conscious and live a life. A person under general anesthesia has a future expectation of person-hood and that is what we give moral protection. A brain dead person has no future expectation of person-hood which is why many don't find it immoral to simply pull the plug. A fetus on the other hand does have a future expectation of person-hood which is why it is wrong to kill it.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 20, 2014 at 10:01 am
(July 13, 2014 at 9:38 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Scripture is clear, insoulation occurs at birth with the first breath (Genesis 2:7). The Christers lost the debate by their HERESY !!
How the fuck can apostates take over a Goddamn religion and NOBODY notices ???
I think it has to do with the fact that they're so warlike. The one thing you have to know about power is the guys with the biggest guns get to make the rules.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 20, 2014 at 10:13 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2014 at 10:15 am by Mudhammam.)
(July 20, 2014 at 9:51 am)Heywood Wrote: A person under general anesthesia isn't conscious either. Would it be okay for a scorned woman to kill her cheating husband while he is under general anesthesia? Of course not. Given time that person under general anesthesia will become conscious and live a life. A person under general anesthesia has a future expectation of person-hood and that is what we give moral protection. A brain dead person has no future expectation of person-hood which is why many don't find it immoral to simply pull the plug. A fetus on the other hand does have a future expectation of person-hood which is why it is wrong to kill it.
A person under anesthesia has a history of being, ya know, a person... with a personality... emotions, thoughts, memories, etc. etc.
A fetus does not.
Seriously, Christians come up with the most asinine comparisons to make their points. One even told me this week that abortion is worse than slavery.
Smh.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
July 20, 2014 at 10:18 am
(July 20, 2014 at 10:13 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (July 20, 2014 at 9:51 am)Heywood Wrote: A person under general anesthesia isn't conscious either. Would it be okay for a scorned woman to kill her cheating husband while he is under general anesthesia? Of course not. Given time that person under general anesthesia will become conscious and live a life. A person under general anesthesia has a future expectation of person-hood and that is what we give moral protection. A brain dead person has no future expectation of person-hood which is why many don't find it immoral to simply pull the plug. A fetus on the other hand does have a future expectation of person-hood which is why it is wrong to kill it.
A person under anesthesia has a history of being, ya know, a person... with a personality... emotions, thoughts, memories, etc. etc.
A fetus does not.
Seriously, Christians come up with the most asinine comparisons to make their points. One even told me this week that abortion is worse than slavery.
Smh.
You summed it up really good, I'm so tired of explaining this to Christians I didn't even bother doing it this time. Let's not got into the abortion discussion again
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