Why I am so passionate about speaking out against feminism.

[Jenny A]

One of my girlfriends married a man who is to say the least physically imposing. He's about 6'4, broad shouldered and barrel chested. He's also an in-your-face sort of guy. They liked to wrestle with and try to pin and/or tickle each other. Many couples do. And typically she ended such bouts with thumb sized bruises on her arms. I've had the same sort and playful wrestling matches with various men and and ended up with the same bruises. And this kind of game often ends in sex. Surprise.

But, my girlfriend's mother saw the bruises and was for several years convinced that some sort of abuse was going on. She knows her son-in-law better now and has changed her mind. The thing is that concealed abuse is common, and well wishers of various sorts can be a pain in the ass trying to expose abuse that isn't there and trying to get the "victim" to admit to being abused.

I wonder at Bad Wolf's girlfriend's mother's involvement. I think in addition to feminism motherly prodding may have had something to do with it.

[Bad Wolf]

It doesn't matter. Either if it was malicious or confusion that won't change the fact that if she come back into your life she will do it again. Because think about it. If it was malicious she will do it again at the first chance and if it was confusion it will happen again at the first misunderstanding. You're better without her pal.

I never want to see her again, I just want to know whether I should be angry at her or feel sorry for her. It's hard to juggle two conflicting emotions like that.

---

I wonder at Bad Wolf's girlfriend's mother's involvement. I think in addition to feminism motherly prodding may have had something to do with it.

That is one of the factors I considered.

[John V]

If that's the case, my second objection is that the not-crazy feminists so rarely call out the ones who are crazy. That's just what I'm doing here. If you aren't one of the crazy ones and you aren't going to defend the crazy ones, I was never talking about you.

First, the moderates, rarely hear the crazy positions. If you're not in academia and you don't follow liberal or conservative blogs, you really don't hear much from such people.

Second, there's the aspect of legitimizing the positions by arguing against them. In my experience most people find the all sex is rape position to be too ridiculous to bother arguing against.

I guess the question I'd want to as you is why it's more important to you that you defend the title 'feminism' than acknowledge the issues I've had with self identified feminists?

I don't know what issues you've had.

Again, watch the video I posted.

Again, I don't watch videos. It's a policy of mine. Type it out if you want me to consider it.

She specifically states that she is pro-choice, pro GLBT, pro gender equality and pro so many of the other things feminism is supposed to stand for. But she isn't crazy about calling herself a feminist because she's seen the title used to defend way too much bad behavior. That's how I feel.

Christianity is used by the fringe to defend bad behavior, but I'm not going to quit calling myself a Christian because of it. If I were a Baptist, I wouldn't let Westboro scare me away from calling myself a Baptist.

---

If your claim is that the great majority of not-crazy feminists shouldn't be judged by the words and actions of a loud minority of them, would it be fair to call out feminists who exercise the exact same behaviors? Why don't I ever see this shit being mentioned?

Maybe because the great majority of not-crazy feminists don't ever see this shit in the first place. I get the feeling you're pissed at feminists and so actively seek out the fringe's crazy shit. Most moderates don't do that.

[Jenny A]

Maybe because the great majority of not-crazy feminists don't ever see this shit in the first place. I get the feeling you're pissed at feminists and so actively seek out the fringe's crazy shit. Most moderates don't do that.

Indeed---unless we are attending an ultra-liberal college. The last time I knew in detail what the ultra-fring of feminists was up to I was attending the University of Colorado in Boulder. I used to think of a certain group of them as the political lesbians. I don't mean lesbians who are interested in politics, I mean heterosexual women who've decided to abstain from men for political reasons. I suspect they are bad news for genetic lesbians.

Then, which was in the late, late 1970s and early 1980s, I was there for the intellectual change of stance from all men and women are really the same and all differences between the sexes are cultural to the sexes are radically different mentally to the point of almost being separate species and cannot communicate. ---- Both positions are equally ludicrous, and I can't tell you what the current position is because I've lost interest. But I assure you that what ever it is, it doesn't have much to do with the current thinking of the majority of women.
[

[Violet]

False rape allegations fuck people up. In a small community, those falsely accused are often branded as 'creepy', and their guilt is assumed by many... and the suspicions of guilt are aroused in most of the rests.

But then, if we allowed the bad apples to define our barrels, I'd hate and fear all men, would never go to the police with an emergency, and would never bother with doctors of medicine.

Luckily for me... this is why barrel rolls were invented. Brb, barrel rolling.

---

I wonder at Bad Wolf's girlfriend's mother's involvement. I think in addition to feminism motherly prodding may have had something to do with it.

Lucky for Bad Wolf that I'm not the mother in question... lucky for the girl in question I'm not her mother. She'd have to endure visiting me behind bars because of lying to me...

Or worse... not remembering telling me about anything at all. I can't assume any particulars about her psychological irritations... but it'd probably suck for her, regardless.

Unless... PLOT TWIST: it was all a clever way to get back at the mother! Ruin her reputation, then skedaddle. It's a perfect plan for the perfect woman!

[TaraJo]

Maybe because the great majority of not-crazy feminists don't ever see this shit in the first place. I get the feeling you're pissed at feminists and so actively seek out the fringe's crazy shit. Most moderates don't do that.

Actually, no. This is the crap I get from self-described moderate feminists in a facebook group that has nothing to do with feminism. Seriously, it's a skeptic group, but we had a couple of members who turned everything into rape culture and misogyny and it was really irritating for those of us who didn't want to talk about rape all-the-fucking-time! Fortunately, both of them left. One left on her own free will to start her own everything-is-rape group and the other got kicked out when she consistantly had about the worst behavior in the group (and had half of us blocked for disagreeing with her).

Also, it's getting increasingly difficult to find trans circles where I can ask trans related questions without having to be on guard for someone telling me how much misogyny I'm internalizing.

Hell, I'm a gamer and the crazy extremists are trying to take over video games; they've already pretty much taken over video game journalism, since most video game sites are half about gaming and the other half read like a typical tumblr social justice blog. Just go to twitter and look up the #GamerGate hashtag if you want to see what it's turned into there.

I'm telling you, my experience has not been to seek out these crazies; my personal experience has been that these crazies keep invading territory that I'm already in. And moderates rarely, if ever, call them on it. For now, instead of really fighting them, my primary interaction with the crazies is to just kinda laugh at them fom a distance, understanding that they have so little understanding of pragmatism that they'll never be able to make significant changes in the world or society.

[Zidneya]

Luckily for me... this is why barrel rolls were invented. Brb, barrel rolling.

The barrels won't help at all. Besides everyone knows that is the Gorilla the one that get's the job done.

[Little lunch]

TaraJo, have you had any experience with extreme feminists in places other then the Internet?

[John V]

I'm telling you, my experience has not been to seek out these crazies; my personal experience has been that these crazies keep invading territory that I'm already in. And moderates rarely, if ever, call them on it. For now, instead of really fighting them, my primary interaction with the crazies is to just kinda laugh at them fom a distance, understanding that they have so little understanding of pragmatism that they'll never be able to make significant changes in the world or society.

There you go, you've answered it. Moderates don't call out the crazies for the reason you give yourself.

[TaraJo]

I'm telling you, my experience has not been to seek out these crazies; my personal experience has been that these crazies keep invading territory that I'm already in. And moderates rarely, if ever, call them on it. For now, instead of really fighting them, my primary interaction with the crazies is to just kinda laugh at them fom a distance, understanding that they have so little understanding of pragmatism that they'll never be able to make significant changes in the world or society.

There you go, you've answered it. Moderates don't call out the crazies for the reason you give yourself.

If you don't want to call out the crazies, that's all fine, but don't start jumping to feminisms' defense when the rest of us do talk about the extremists. The behavior from moderates like you really reminds me of the behavior of moderate Christians when I call out their crazy fundamentalists (video related).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8bUWw1-8wk

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TaraJo, have you had any experience with extreme feminists in places other then the Internet?

A few trans circles have gotten like this here and there; I'm far enough into transition that I don't need them all that often, but my boyfriend is still fairly new to the process and he could use the support. Unfortunately for him, a lot of the more extreme social justice circles are specifically hostile towards men, trans or otherwise, and they aren't too fond of white people, so it makes things a little tricky for him. I'm just glad that their influence on irl world is minimal, at best.