If the Exodus didn't happen, the Jews wouldn't put themselves under the Mosaic law

[Minimalist]

You'll be saying "God" doesn't exist next.

[Minimalist]

One cited example is that by taking every 50th letter of the Book of Genesis starting with the first taw, the Hebrew word "torah" is spelled out. The same happens in the Book of Exodus.

Of, ffs.

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

The following challenge was made by Michael Drosnin:

When my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby Dick, I'll believe them.
(Newsweek, Jun 9, 1997)

Note that English with the vowels included is far less flexible than Hebrew when it comes to making letters into words. Nevertheless, without further ado, we present our answer to Mr Drosnin's challenge.

Bible code my ass.

[Cyberman]

Bible code? Seriously? What next, finger painting? Nap time? Breathing in and out?

[Minimalist]

What next, finger painting?

Paper Mache dildos.

[Jackalope]

Most of the OT was written between 700 and 500 BC, including the parts which purport to tell of the Exodus supposedly around 1400 BC. In the era when the OT was written the Jews were getting the shit kicked out of them by the Assyrians and the Babylonians. Jewish nationalists made up a religion which was totally monotheistic in contrast to the actual beliefs of the people who thought Yahweh had a wife. Furthermore, their newly minted religion was extremely difficult in order to prevent assimilation. For instance, circumcision and the weird dietary laws set them apart from other nations. It was in this era in the reign of Josiah that someone conveniently found a long-lost book of the law in the temple, namely Deuteronomy, a classic case of literary forgery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

One cited example is that by taking every 50th letter of the Book of Genesis starting with the first taw, the Hebrew word "torah" is spelled out. The same happens in the Book of Exodus.

Thanks. Now we know precisely what sort of idiot we're dealing with.

[Jenny A]

From an exchange...

Did tens of thousands of Israelites conspire to fabricate the history of the Exodus? If those events did not occur, and those recorded miracles were not experienced by tens of thousands of Israelites, why would they subject themselves to such a burdensome legal code and hard life?

The person in question doesn't seems interested in there being or not archeological evidence for the event.

Are there any examples of people in other religions doing something similar? I know he would reject such accounts but it would be nice to point it to him to show him why I reject the Bible account

What you are missing here is that Deuteronomy (the book with all the law) is a late edition to the Exodus story. Deuteronomy was written in Jerusalem in the 600s BC as part of the religious reforms promoted by King Josiah (reigned 641–609 BC) and edited and added to in the 500s after the Babylonian exhile. Here's the context:

Both Judah and Israel were vassal states of Assyria. Israel rebelled, and was destroyed c.722 BC. Israeli refugees to Judah brought with them the tradition Yahweh was not just an god, but the only god who should be served. This idea appealed the Judahite landowner elite, who saw political advantages to consolidated worship centering around Jerusalem. During Joshia's reign, Assyrian power declined, and Joshua and the wealthy did consolidate power based on a state theology of loyalty to Yahweh as the sole god of Israel. With Joshia's support, the priests invoked an early form of Deuteronomy 5–26, which takes the form of an covenant between Judah and Yahweh and replacing the one between Judah and Assyria. This covenant was inserted retroactively as a speech by Moses to the Israelite (Deut.5:1).

Babylon conquered Judea in the 580s BC and the elites and priests were taken into exile in Babylon. The exiles explained the loss and exile to themselves as Yahweh's punishment for their failure to follow the law. The books of Joshua through Kings was written and compiled during the exile and reflect this view.

When the Persians agreed that the Jews could return and rebuild the temple at Jerusalem, chapters 1–4 and 29–30 were added to Deuteronomy, making it a story about a people about to return to their own land rather than people coming to a promised land. Chapters 19–25 were added to reflect current political needs, and chapters 31–34 were added as a new conclusion.

The whole thing was then foisted on the poor and mostly illiterate Judeans who had remained in Judea and who had returned to polytheism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deuteronomy
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articl...euteronomy

Unlike Exodus, the release from Babylon was real enough.

Won't wash though, if you really believe Moses wrote Deuteronomy.

[Minimalist]

Jen, if you can ever find it, a great little book is called "The View From Nebo."

Here's a page I scanned for you.




The story is not what the OT puts out...surprise, surprise. In addition there was an amusing dispute between Israeli Archaeologists, Israel Finkelstein and Oded Lipschitz about the size of the contingent which came back from "Babylon" and re-occupied Jerusalem. The book of "Ezra" claims over 42,000.

Finkelstein did some math based on the re-built portion of the city and came up with..... 400.

"Not so fast," shouted Oded Lipschitz (probably in Hebrew) "I've done the math too and I get a total of....... 1,000."

The two of them, old friends and colleagues of course, are probably still quibbling but the point is that the rest of us can once again safely dismiss the bullshit claims of the bible for what they are. BULLSHIT.

[Cyberman]

Damn, another trick missed. I'd have called that book "Finding Nebo".

These people ought to take me on as a creative consultant.

[abaris]

When someone comes up with something as ludicrous as bible code, the first question coming to mind is, which bible edition in which language at which time?

[Minimalist]

It's always the one that they accept, obviously.

For example:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/does-bible-co...nt-romney/

Does Bible code predict President Romney?
Hebrew expert claims Mitt's destiny embedded in Scripture

Shak says the Hebrew code goes beyond merely stating that Romney will be president, but also describes the kind of leader he’ll be.

“The codes are telling us: a fitting president,” he explains, adding that Romney’s name is associated with the phrase, “the man (is) for Him,” referring to the Master of the universe.

Assholes.