"With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?

[Minimalist]

I disagree. The masses aren't inflamed, or else we'd call them zealots. We call them moderates because they're not extremists.

I don't know....



that's a metric fuckton of people out there because of a fucking cartoon. Are they all extremists?

[robvalue]

Anyone who gets that angry over a cartoon is extreme in my book.

[Minimalist]

Tht's cause you don't think like these primitive shits.

[robvalue]

Yeah There is no cartoon anyone could ever draw, about anything, that would make me feel the need to flick them on the head let alone demand their death. Any belief system that is so fragile yet so angry is clearly fucked from the inside out.

[Minimalist]

Exactly.

And the fucking xtians aren't much better.

[robvalue]

I always hear, "You must remember Jesus at this time of year."

My reply, "Never met the dude."

[Thumpalumpacus]

Zealotry is the culprit. It takes a zealot -- Christian, Communist, Muslim, whatever -- it takes a zealot to justify evil with ideology.

Not just a zealot, but a zealot that is motivated by bad dogma and doctrine.

Even the best doctrines and prescriptions can be disastrous when applied zealously -- pure capitalism, pure communism, pure altruism, and most other ideologies read well in the abstract, but when humans try to shoehorn reality so that it fits their favorite abstraction, bad shit happens, usually.

---

I disagree. The masses aren't inflamed, or else we'd call them zealots. We call them moderates because they're not extremists.

I don't know....



that's a metric fuckton of people out there because of a fucking cartoon. Are they all extremists?

... And there's a kajillion more who, while Muslim, think those guys are evil, or stupid, or at best misguided.

Those mobs might represent Muslims to you. But the aren't the masses of Muslims, which number 1.6 billion.

[Minimalist]

Don't try to pretend that it is just one picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Po...ontroversy

After the Danish government refused to meet with diplomatic representatives of the Muslim countries and would not intervene in the case, a number of Danish imams visited the Middle East in late 2005 to raise awareness of the issue. As a result, the issue received prominent media attention in some Muslim countries, leading to protests across the world in late January and early February 2006. Some escalated into violence resulting in more than 200 reported deaths, attacks on Danish and other European diplomatic missions, attacks on churches and Christians, and a major international boycott.

Five months after the cartoons were printed these fucking muslim "imams" ( must be arabic for scumbag?) were out there stirring up riots against the fucking Danes, of all people.

This was a manufactured crisis and plenty of shitheads joined in.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm not trying to pretend that it's only one picture. I'm also not trying to broadbrush people. I'm also not trying to pretend that I'm an expert based on what I've been fed from the Western media.

Remember the debate over Prop 187? These pictures serve much the same purpose as the footage of Latinos marching under a Mexican flag -- they serve to fetch an emotional response while adding very little content to the conversation.

[Jenny A]

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

Just curious about this. I have had multiple arguments where I use this, although it is argued back that;

"Although not in the name of atheism, secular people can do wrong acts too" and "Good people do evil acts as well, so what's your point?"

What do people think about these counter arguments?

He's mostly right. For good people to do evil things, that takes religion, ideology, a mob, or an evil authority figure.