After the France incident : a Muslim -me- just thinking..

[WinterHold]

Hey

The last attacks on the cartoonists were pretty brutal. I remember seeing it on the news once I woke up, well I didn't watch the video but the numbers were enough ; this attack is for real.

My sympathy goes to these cartoonists even if they mocked the prophet peace be upon him ; their life which is a very precious thing to all humans was taken away.

So no, not at all this act is not justified. Actually under Islamic rule, the brothers who committed the attack would be executed for massacring civilians.
Letting the reader know I don't justify it. Not at all.

But aside from that, it is a phenomena that many Muslims are starting to adapt this way of thinking, mainly dragged by jihadists' via propaganda. Mainly, the people are desperate because of poverty, unemployment. Though the main fuel for the jihadists' propaganda is stuff like the invasion of iraq. The Iraq war butchered 2 Million -mostly Muslims- by the hands of the U.S & its allies (including other Muslim Arabs). But the world never condemned the Iraq war this harsh, or even put forth a glorious march like the one in France.

How many crimes also took place & were hidden ? committed by non-Muslims ? Though ; the media doesn't give it that much of attention, even though the casualties are more severe & the attack is more more more brutal.

What about the drones ? robots are making a revolution now, mainly tested on Muslims. All kinds of new technologies were tested on Muslims, in some cases miss-shoot or go wrong to kill civilians, in numbers greater than the incident in France over a longer period. But the freedom of speech doesn't include these people.

What happened in France is bad. But Muslims have been living it too for a while, and the effect of poverty, wars & conflicts started to show up : insane killers are spawning because of the stress. Does that justify their murder ? no. They are murderers ; too.

Via freedom of speech reaching everybody, the fuel for such attacks will be lessened ; emptied a little. Every criminal act is not welcomed ; even if it was from a french drone in the afghani mountains.

We must all work to build the luxury of that when we avoid killing we don't get killed -no matter what we do or say-, and when we meet others & we don't get judged or carry the sins of somebody else. life is a precious gift from god to humanity ; the brain is also another precious gift.

A French citizen doesn't carry the weight of a corrupt politician. An American citizen doesn't carry the weight of the army. A Muslim doesn't carry the weight of Osama & his kins.

[Alex K]

My sympathy goes to these cartoonists even if they mocked the prophet peace be upon him

I appreciate the statement.

As a free service though, I've highlighted the parts for you that you should have left out.

[Marsellus Wallace]

TIL OP is a muslim....

[WinterHold]

My sympathy goes to these cartoonists even if they mocked the prophet peace be upon him

I appreciate the statement.

As a free service though, I've highlighted the parts for you that you should have left out.

Just so the reader -in case they didn't know already- know & make sure, that not even once Islamic verse supports killing a person who mocks the prophet.
Since you mentioned it & highlighted it ; a verse from the Quran shall do the trick :

( 41 ) And when they see you, [O Muhammad], they take you not except in ridicule, [saying], "Is this the one whom Allah has sent as a messenger?

Marsellus Wallace

Hi Marsellus glad to see your comment.
uh, I consider my religion a private thing ; usually I don't discuss it ; since I spent many years in Saudi Arabia my kind of faith is not tolerated there. So it became a habit to not mention it unless asked -or a topic must be discussed- .

[FatAndFaithless]

*cough cough*

Quran 33:57–61

"Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment. Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)".

[Anomalocaris]

I appreciate the statement.

As a free service though, I've highlighted the parts for you that you should have left out.

Just so the reader -in case they didn't know already- know & make sure, that not even once Islamic verse supports killing a person who mocks the prophet.
Since you mentioned it & highlighted it ; a verse from the Quran shall do the trick :

( 41 ) And when they see you, [O Muhammad], they take you not except in ridicule, [saying], "Is this the one whom Allah has sent as a messenger?

Marsellus Wallace

Hi Marsellus glad to see your comment.
uh, I consider my religion a private thing ; usually I don't discuss it ; since I spent many years in Saudi Arabia my kind of faith is not tolerated there. So it became a habit to not mention it unless asked -or a topic must be discussed- .

If you accept one should not kill anyone for mocking muhammud regardless of what the Koran say, then you are worth talking to. If you think you accept one should not kill anyone for mocking muhammud because you don't think Koran requires you to, thus implying if you had thought Koran do so require of you, then you should have killed he who mocks Muhammud, then the accident of your current view point does not elevate your to worthiness.

[WinterHold]

*cough cough*

Quran 33:57–61

"Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment. Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)".

This is the wrong way to do it ; nobody reads a book like that.
My brain asks : annoy ? how ? allah, what would annoy you ?

to know ; I shall go back a couple of verses -which is something you & the Jihadists usually forget-.

( 53 ) O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.
( 54 ) Whether you reveal a thing or conceal it, indeed Allah is ever, of all things, Knowing.
( 55 ) There is no blame upon women concerning their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or those their right hands possess. And fear Allah. Indeed Allah is ever, over all things, Witness.
( 56 ) Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [Allah to grant him] peace.

Actually, the above to verses -from the same Sura- are about people going into Muhammed's home, and stay for a very long time inside without considering his privacy. Muhammed was shy so he can't kick them out ; so the verses I copied above tell his visitors to just stay for a meal then go.

Though, there were well known people who didn't like muhammed, and used that his house is always open to either assassinate him or hurt him badly enough to immigrate.

Check this verse out :

( 76 ) And indeed, they were about to drive you from the land to evict you therefrom. And then [when they do], they will not remain [there] after you, except for a little. Quran, page 290

Though ; when you read the Quran as a whole like this -without cutting down verses-, you'll get that muslims are not allowed to kill unless attacked directly. In the Quran god called this act of self defense "jihad", modern countries call it "declaration of war".

Just saying.

Chuck

No, the Quran itself says I shouldn't kill ; it's not a treaty between the savage muslims and the modern civilized non muslims.
If the Quran was a book of murder & death I wouldn't have believed in Islam. I would be on your side of the fight.

I believed in the Quran because unlike many other human laws systems : it doesn't say that the goal justifies the method.

I wrote a long topic back in the past about Islam & self esteem, and how god in the Quran is always the bigger person who gives everybody an equal chance in this life ; even if the person mocked god or his prophets.

Eventually ; it's a matter of "purity" : if the Quran was a book of wako jihadists I wouldn't have ever believed in it

[Brakeman]

If allah and his buddy mo' the prophet, piss be upon him, write a a book of rules and instructions for the people and it is not perfectly clear and unmistakable in every meaning so that so many muslims do incorrectly interpret it as an instigation to violence and evil, then both allah and mo' are culpable in the violence that ensues from the obfuscation.

They don't get a free ride yelling fire in a crowded theater. They would have known how easily religious ideas can bring forth blood baths, so they owed mankind a perfectly referenced and clear book that would have explained within each possible-to-misconstrue point the counters to every conceivable alternate meaning. It wouldn't matter if the book was ten times longer than the bare outline version, lives are at stake.

If you are silly enough to believe in flying meta-physical angels and flying horses, then pretty much any example of the irrationality of gods is likely to fall on deaf ears. That is so sad.

[The Grand Nudger]

Wait, what? You're imagining that because you are a good person (the unstated implication)...and you believe(d) in the quran...that the quran -can't- be a savage book of death? That, when your brain revolts at the words on the page and you say "no, no it can't be" and you find some way of ignoring or otherwise modifying precisely what is on the page to be more inline with what is in your head......that this changes whats on the page? Where's the submission, in all of this?

I'm afraid that this is not how that works...but it is the textbook definition of dissonance.

[WinterHold]

If allah and his buddy mo' the prophet, piss be upon him, write a a book of rules and instructions for the people and it is not perfectly clear and unmistakable in every meaning so that so many muslims do incorrectly interpret it as an instigation to violence and evil, then both allah and mo' are culpable in the violence that ensues from the obfuscation.

They don't get a free ride yelling fire in a crowded theater. They would have known how easily religious ideas can bring forth blood baths, so they owed mankind a perfectly referenced and clear book that would have explained within each possible-to-misconstrue point the counters to every conceivable alternate meaning. It wouldn't matter if the book was ten times longer than the bare outline version, lives are at stake.

If you are silly enough to believe in flying meta-physical angels and flying horses, then pretty much any example of the irrationality of gods is likely to fall on deaf ears. That is so sad.

That's cool.
I'm a believer in freedom of speech & it's a two sided road ; my opinion would be : check the biggest two wars in human history, were they caused by islam or by nationalism ?

Yes, excuse my savagery. I'm a stupid person who believes in another world, believes in love -yep i'm a sissy-, believes that a human being is more than just a physical body. I believe in emotions & I believe that someday i will find my soulmate, who would love me as much as i love her. Excuse me, but ali baba is a little savage who needs attitude adjustment by studs like you, who remembers freedom of speech?

Rhythm

I think it's pretty obvious. Actually, a very big muslim crowd adapted the same concepts & faith I have, but sadly they were chased & killed either by nationalists or by Jihadists.
But that's my opinion ; you had yours of course and you have the right to keep it & state it loudly.

Excuse Aladin for his savagery. Aladin is a wild animal