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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 11, 2015 at 3:32 pm
"Apologetic brilliant at denying facts."
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 11, 2015 at 3:35 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2015 at 3:38 pm by Mudhammam.)
"New apologetic, neither brilliant nor factual"
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 12, 2015 at 8:59 pm
"Apologetic argument brilliantly annihilated by facts."
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 12, 2015 at 11:15 pm
...... like I said.
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 13, 2015 at 6:49 am
I think most "succesful" apologetics relies on using words with such ill-defined meanings that under certain definitions of the words the sentences are true. They are then applied completely outside the scope of these definitions.
When you try and define "everything" as "all the things I want it to include, and none of those I don't" then it starts to get farcical.
This thread in the other forum is still going, albeit I am now being accused of being a baby killer in an unexpected 90degree turn. I don't think they liked it when I pointed out to the guy whose proof of God is that God healed his dodgy ankle, that God obviously found this far more important than helping millions of dying children.
It's fascinating, and more than a little entertaining, how these people keep defending such stupidity.
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 13, 2015 at 7:46 am
God loves healing those minor ailments, but amputees not so much.
He also watches while people help themselves, and doesn't help people who don't help themselves. Neat.
I think the best thing to do with slippery apologetics is to hammer out the definitions of all the important words at the very start. If they won't even agree to a solid definition, then they have to forfeit the debate for being an arse. I get sick of people switching definitions, it's such a low life trick.
Truth doesn't need trickery dudes.
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 13, 2015 at 10:03 am
(February 13, 2015 at 7:46 am)robvalue Wrote: God loves healing those minor ailments, but amputees not so much.
He also watches while people help themselves, and doesn't help people who don't help themselves. Neat.
I think the best thing to do with slippery apologetics is to hammer out the definitions of all the important words at the very start. If they won't even agree to a solid definition, then they have to forfeit the debate for being an arse. I get sick of people switching definitions, it's such a low life trick.
Truth doesn't need trickery dudes.
Modern medicine can heal those poor amputees.
http://kotaku.com/double-amputee-gets-tw...1672552101
so this is like a big fuck you to god.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 13, 2015 at 11:44 am
(February 5, 2015 at 3:50 pm)FreeTony Wrote: Having a discussion on another forum, I am astounded at the following argument:
God created everything, but he didn't create diseases/cancer etc because these aren't "things".
So we end up with both the claim that everything must have been designed due to blah blah blah, followed by "except all the bad bits which weren't designed".
I thought at first this guy was just a moron, but this argument seems to not even come from him. It is in the form "evil is not a thing" which is slightly better until you try to insert real life examples in, after which it again fails.
When you get arguments like this, you realise they are just trying to say anything to avoid having to think about it and hope it goes away. God created all things. Generally when using this statement the Biblical theist is qualifying 'things' to refer to the material world. God created all [material] things. Given that evil is not material, it is not a 'thing' within the parameters of this definition. Obviously evil is a 'thing', just not a material one.
(February 5, 2015 at 4:48 pm)Alex K Wrote: But what about love? Love is not a 'creation' at all. According to the Biblical position, God is eternal, and God's nature is love. If God is eternal, then God's nature is eternal. If God's nature is eternal and love is His nature, then love is eternal.
(February 11, 2015 at 10:23 am)JonDarbyXIII Wrote: Interestingly enough, the Bible itself says this is not the case:
Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
Evil is not the absence of good, and darkness is not the absence of light. Most importantly, God says he created it all. Be careful about equivocating the word 'create'. Again the initial argument has to do with the creation of material things.
Isaiah's quote is true, but it does not say that God creates evil as you have claimed. It doesn't mention evil at all.
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 13, 2015 at 11:48 am
(February 13, 2015 at 11:44 am)orangebox21 Wrote: (February 5, 2015 at 3:50 pm)FreeTony Wrote: Having a discussion on another forum, I am astounded at the following argument:
God created everything, but he didn't create diseases/cancer etc because these aren't "things".
So we end up with both the claim that everything must have been designed due to blah blah blah, followed by "except all the bad bits which weren't designed".
I thought at first this guy was just a moron, but this argument seems to not even come from him. It is in the form "evil is not a thing" which is slightly better until you try to insert real life examples in, after which it again fails.
When you get arguments like this, you realise they are just trying to say anything to avoid having to think about it and hope it goes away. God created all things. Generally when using this statement the Biblical theist is qualifying 'things' to refer to the material world. God created all [material] things. Given that evil is not material, it is not a 'thing' within the parameters of this definition. Obviously evil is a 'thing', just not a material one.
...
Unfortunately for you, the OP isn't about evil in the abstract, but about particular physical things, diseases and cancer. Being things, diseases and cancer were created by god, if god created all things.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Brilliant new apologetic fact
February 13, 2015 at 11:49 am
(February 13, 2015 at 11:44 am)orangebox21 Wrote: (February 5, 2015 at 4:48 pm)Alex K Wrote: But what about love? Love is not a 'creation' at all. According to the Biblical position, God is eternal, and God's nature is love. If God is eternal, then God's nature is eternal. If God's nature is eternal and love is His nature, then love is eternal.
Yes, we've already established that is the right answer. It's also why god gives everyone cancer.
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