(February 13, 2015 at 10:46 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: There's no need to "try to make things right". I don't need Christians to forgive me.
And I do not intend to forgive Christianity for telling a 6-year old child, that his atheist father is going to spend eternity being tortured and burned - whether he's a good man or not - simply because he wouldn't believe something that's utterly unbelievable. I - as a "good Christian" was going to Heaven, never to see my father again. "That's f-ing heaven, for you sick, sick people?" I thought. And that's when you lost me. Oh, yeah - and then I also went to school and learned some basic science... And read the damn Bible...
The only way to "make things right" - as far as I'm concerned - is for organized religion to stop existing. Yeah, I know - pie in the sky (in a manner of speaking) but you've got to dream big.
I don't care what people believe, as long as they keep it to themselves. And obey the law. Real, relevant law, created by people and not their imaginary friends.
yes in order for Christians to get it right, they need to forgive what has gone wrong.
if they keep projecting, why do you think they keep teaching the way they do.
the change has to start from within before they change what they teach externally.
as for getting religion to stop existing, trying to abolish or denounce this
only begets the "equal and opposite" reaction of trying to abolish or denounce opposition. so it deadlocks, like two sides going to war to eradicate the other side.
war doesn't work to solve problems that caused it.
war serves as a deterrent to prevent from going there, when more people realizing it only kills, and doesn't resolve the conflicts.
conflicts and corrections can only be addressed in an environment of peace where people can interact rationally and civilly as we are doing here.
you can't correct problems in a state of war with emotions flying and mutual rejection going on. that doesn't work. it just makes people cling more to defend their views from attack.
all the people i've seen effectively correct problems with false indoctrination
did so with personal interaction to work out mutual issues and solve problems together. that is what i have seen work. by acceptance and working it out rationally.
(February 12, 2015 at 2:33 pm)dyresand Wrote: (February 12, 2015 at 1:44 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I hate to tell you this, but only one side of that converastion believes the other is a bad person deserving of eternal torture because of his or her beliefs.
I find it really fucked up since you can be a great person donate millions of dollars help the sick and needy and the less fortunate and if you don't believe in a god people are quickly to bad talk and even say you will go to hell.
Me too I'd say
the reason you have a problem with this is that it isn't true
what matters is what degree we are able to forgive each other
so we don't add to the suffering in the world already going on
so Atheists who forgive can avoid hell
and Christians who can't forgive cause the very damnation they seek to avoid
this is very hard to understand, and very hard to forgive
but those who do no longer judge people by their labels
can see the deeper message and process going on
that is bigger than the battles we create out of it that aren't the real fight
it's very sad, but it's beautiful to find the people who have risen above it
and don't judge each other for superficial things that aren't the real point
(February 12, 2015 at 1:44 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (February 12, 2015 at 1:42 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: Hi @Brakeman
For people to hear and understand each other,
the Forgiveness has to be mutual. Christians and Atheists cannot go into discussions already rejecting and assuming the other is false.
So the first step is forgiving that we have our differences and that, yes, there are assumptions and mistakes made on all sides. The corrections are mutual, and when people realize the changes are also mutual, then there isn't this battle of wills working "against" each other to "try to make the other wrong" -- the battle becomes a shared effort to "try to make things right."
I hate to tell you this, but only one side of that converastion believes the other is a bad person deserving of eternal torture because of his or her beliefs.
Hi FatandFaithless
I listen to the people who don't condemn or reject people for their views.
I have found both Atheists and Christians who get it right, also Buddhists.
Many Christians get it wrong, but even the Bible warns that will happen:
that the gate of righteousness is very narrow and few shall find it.
Very few go through the trouble to find where all views agree, and call that truth universal where it includes all people. that's a lot of work and few go all the way to form a consensus before assuming what is true or not.
Most take the broad path of destruction, of blaming conflicts on the
"other person or group" by saying
I am right you are wrong
We are right they are wrong
anyone can do that and most people do because it's human
(but that's why humanity suffers wars and hell, from this approach to conflict)
few people say there is a way we can all be right, so why not find and take that path and focus on where we agree.
the Buddhists teach the middle way, and I believe the balance between peace and freedom is where justice is established that Jesus represents as uniting all people in peace.
if it's any comfort to you, the Lutheran pastor at the church I joined believed that God had his reasons for making Jews, Muslims, Atheists and people of different faiths; and the point was to support them in being the best Jews they could be, or best Atheists they could be and just serve whatever purpose God has for them in life.
I believe in coming to that level of peace with differences, however people express it using their own systems. the Muslims I know also believe in respecting all people's views and approaches, and the Buddhists also. there is a way to teach this in Christianity also, but it must be by consensus with all the groups claiming to be Christian or else it gets attacked as teaching falsely. we'll see if that can be resolved.
if not then I would agree there is something wrong with Christianity if it cannot be used to establish a consensus as I believe it means to do. including atheists in that.
(February 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: (February 9, 2015 at 5:07 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: What a breathtakingly dishonest and morally repugnant series of bullshittery.
Many here have stated choosing atheism has destroyed their relationship with their families, you know that has been stated here your dishonest says everything about you.
GC
Hi Godschild
it only destroys the family where people can't forgive their differences
and find ways to work around them.
Marrying someone of a different race, culture or religion are similar
where it is more challenging, but if people agree to forgive and work through those challenges, people can make it by asking for help to make it work.
An affair or divorce can also destroy family, but there are people who have worked through it where they restored and preserved relations even if the partnerships changed.
(I agree with you in cases where people abuse either religion or atheism or whatever to deliberately reject or cause harm to others. I would compare this with the difference between people who abuse homosexuality to harm others as projection of when they were sexually abused, which is rare but does occur; versus people who are not abusive with their homosexual relations and it isn't caused by unnatural abuse from their childhood. these two types of cases are different, and the same with religious views that may or may not come from trying to rebel, retaliate or abuse/hurt others, but which come from someone's inborn inclinations as their spiritual identity.)
P.s. if you don't understand the distinctions I make here, then you really should not be in the business of judging people if you don't know the motivations behind their beliefs. no two situations are the same, so that is why it is not for us to judge people for these things. if we can solve the problem, then we can find out what is going on. not by judging from the outside, but working with people to resolve them on the inside.
