Most challenging arguement you have faced?

[tavarish]

Hmmmm, I agree it would be observable, however, I have contention with your saying it would be demonstratable. If it were a miracle by your apparent definition of the word, then it would be uncontrollable by mankind and likely a one-time sort of thing.

If it were some sort of healing prayer, then of course it is onl within the psyche. But you would be surprised how much the psyche affects the state of the body, I think.

There have been lots of studies on this very subject. It has been concluded and verified that prayer has no effect on healing a person. Psychological benefits are only that, and only go as far as a placebo effect. Prayer can't cure cancer, nor can it heal a severed leg.

[Watson]

But prayer can help put a person in a psychological state where they are more ready to accept treatment, care, and medicine into their body to help them get over their cancer. Mind over matter? That's how it works, the mind thinks it's getting better, so the body works harder to keep up with the mind's perception.

Similarly, prayer can help someone with a severed leg cope with their missing limb and bring them to a closer understanding of why missing a limb isn't s bad- i.e. prayer can help remind them that there are plenty of artificial limbs they may purchase, or that they are lucky to have not lost something more essential such as an organ, a sense, or even their life.

[Minimalist]

Similarly, prayer can help someone with a severed leg cope with their missing limb and bring them to a closer understanding of why missing a limb isn't s bad

Of course, that isn't really the point is it? If your god is really a 'god' he should be able to make the limb grow back, shouldn't he?

Just once is all it would take.

[Watson]

And just once is all it would take to totally crush the point of free will and faith in one fell swoop.

[Minimalist]

Salamanders and some worms can re-generate. Perhaps they "pray?"

Oh wait...what would that do to the "we-are-so-intelligent-therefore-god" argument?

[Watson]

XD Destroy it.

Praying worms made me snicker...

[Minimalist]

How odd.


Praying humans make me snicker.

[Zhalentine]

@ Sae- well I guess if you think order from chaos is natually occuring then I would agree with that last statement.

Water going to ice is naturally occurring and the entropy decreases (becomes more ordered).

[tackattack]

And what about water to steam? What's your point? That in nature order is observable, I know it is. Finite dimensional linear systems are not chaotic; for a dynamical system to display chaotic behaviour it has to be either nonlinear, or infinite-dimensional. So is the universe infinite or not? Is it a closed system or not?

[Zhalentine]

And what about water to steam? What's your point? That in nature order is observable, I know it is. Finite dimensional linear systems are not chaotic; for a dynamical system to display chaotic behaviour it has to be either nonlinear, or infinite-dimensional. So is the universe infinite or not? Is it a closed system or not?

My point is that order from chaos happens in nature, which is what you mentioned. Whether or not that is what you meant is a different matter; I just took your statement literally.