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Most challenging arguement you have faced?
#31
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
(March 15, 2010 at 8:04 pm)Watson Wrote: Hmmmm, I agree it would be observable, however, I have contention with your saying it would be demonstratable. If it were a miracle by your apparent definition of the word, then it would be uncontrollable by mankind and likely a one-time sort of thing.

If it were some sort of healing prayer, then of course it is onl within the psyche. But you would be surprised how much the psyche affects the state of the body, I think.

There have been lots of studies on this very subject. It has been concluded and verified that prayer has no effect on healing a person. Psychological benefits are only that, and only go as far as a placebo effect. Prayer can't cure cancer, nor can it heal a severed leg.
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#32
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
But prayer can help put a person in a psychological state where they are more ready to accept treatment, care, and medicine into their body to help them get over their cancer. Mind over matter? That's how it works, the mind thinks it's getting better, so the body works harder to keep up with the mind's perception.

Similarly, prayer can help someone with a severed leg cope with their missing limb and bring them to a closer understanding of why missing a limb isn't s bad- i.e. prayer can help remind them that there are plenty of artificial limbs they may purchase, or that they are lucky to have not lost something more essential such as an organ, a sense, or even their life.
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#33
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
Quote:Similarly, prayer can help someone with a severed leg cope with their missing limb and bring them to a closer understanding of why missing a limb isn't s bad


Of course, that isn't really the point is it? If your god is really a 'god' he should be able to make the limb grow back, shouldn't he?

Just once is all it would take.
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#34
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
And just once is all it would take to totally crush the point of free will and faith in one fell swoop. Wink
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#35
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
Salamanders and some worms can re-generate. Perhaps they "pray?"

Oh wait...what would that do to the "we-are-so-intelligent-therefore-god" argument?
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#36
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
XD Destroy it.

Praying worms made me snicker...
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#37
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
How odd.


Praying humans make me snicker.
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#38
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
(March 15, 2010 at 6:04 pm)tackattack Wrote: @ Sae- well I guess if you think order from chaos is natually occuring then I would agree with that last statement.

Water going to ice is naturally occurring and the entropy decreases (becomes more ordered).
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#39
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
And what about water to steam? What's your point? That in nature order is observable, I know it is. Finite dimensional linear systems are not chaotic; for a dynamical system to display chaotic behaviour it has to be either nonlinear, or infinite-dimensional. So is the universe infinite or not? Is it a closed system or not?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#40
RE: Most challenging arguement you have faced?
(March 16, 2010 at 12:47 am)tackattack Wrote: And what about water to steam? What's your point? That in nature order is observable, I know it is. Finite dimensional linear systems are not chaotic; for a dynamical system to display chaotic behaviour it has to be either nonlinear, or infinite-dimensional. So is the universe infinite or not? Is it a closed system or not?

My point is that order from chaos happens in nature, which is what you mentioned. Whether or not that is what you meant is a different matter; I just took your statement literally.
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