Jesus' Sacrifice

[robvalue]

[Minimalist]

[robvalue]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The "Mark" we have is not what was written in the first place. Quite possibly nothing much like it at all.

[Pizza]

So these people are looking over edited and mistake-ridden copies and trying to figure out where they originally came from and what they said.
No wonder they call it apologetics.

At best it's a historical guessing game, but that doesn't sound good as a sound bite in a debate if you are an apologist.

[Cato]

Ok, clato. In your opinion what is God trying to communicate with Christ on the cross, that could have been done another way?

It's like a used car salesman telling you that when the car breaks down he will personally come and restore it to a pristine condition and guarantees from that moment forward the car will flawlessly run forever with no fuel. All that's asked of you is that you suck his dick every day until the car breaks down.

[FatAndFaithless]

Another question is..why would Jesus ask if his Father had forsaken him...if he is his Father. It's like Gollum arguing with Smeagol, it's insane.

[robvalue]

Could it be...

They didn't have very good editors in those days? Haha. When massive changes to the stories were made, no one had the sense to go through and remove references which were now contradictory.

That "conversation" certainly got missed with the retcon.

It wouldn't even make any sense for any jesus story where he knew he was meant to die for a purpose.

[Nope]

Drich wrote:


But we don't need to see blood and suffering to know someone made a sacrifice for us. The sacrificing person doesn't even have to die. For example, when parents work two jobs so their child can go to college we know that the parent has sacrificed for their child. Jewish people didn't believe that their was only one way to gain god's forgiveness and they are the ones who wrote the rules in the Old Testament.

The Christian story makes god seem like Ramsey Snow torturing Theon from Game of Thrones or Jigsaw from the Saw movies. Bible god decided to set up a weird game system with rules he created just so he could eventually torture himself for a few hours so humans could tell him how great he is.

In the op you said christ could have suffered more, and now you say he suffered too much...

Christ suffered and died to illustrate the pain and suffering/cost of salvation. These illustrations help us understand the very high price attonement cost God.

You are misreading me. If your god had to suffer for us to gain forgiveness then why is a six hour crucifixion enough compared to the eternity of hell we get for not kissing his ass for that unasked for 'sacrifice". But why suffer at all? That is silly. And no, humans do not need pain and suffering to illustrate the cost of a sacrifice. You are married, Drich. When your wife takes time to do something for you does she also have to physically hurt herself to gain your gratitude?

[Drich]

Ok, clato. In your opinion what is God trying to communicate with Christ on the cross, that could have been done another way?

It's like a used car salesman telling you that when the car breaks down he will personally come and restore it to a pristine condition and guarantees from that moment forward the car will flawlessly run forever with no fuel. All that's asked of you is that you suck his dick every day until the car breaks down.

See how confused you are about the strong message that is being relayed from the cross? what weaker method could have been used to give you clarity about the freedom we have found in Christ?

[Nope]

Another question is..why would Jesus ask if his Father had forsaken him...if he is his Father. It's like Gollum arguing with Smeagol, it's insane.

Some Christians think that Jesus actually became sin or somehow took on our literal sin while on the cross. I had a pastor who claimed that god could not look on sin so he could no longer see Jesus. At least, I think that was his explanation. The pastor's explanation countered the idea of an omnipotent god so completely that I felt my former religious brain begin to explode.