The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Divinity]

By revelation from God. When I meet God my parents sporadically took us to church, I didn't read the bible and my family didn't read it to me. The only reason I believe what the bible says is because I know who God is. God is the foundation of my faith not the Bible. Now don't get me wrong I believe what the Bible says, but only because it is backed up by my revelation of God.

How do you know that the Devil isn't tricking you into believing the bible?

[Rekeisha]

I hear that you don't believe because of the evidence that you have found. That you said that you have had to do mental gymnastics. I don't know how you were brought up or what you believe so I can't say wither or not it was grounded in biblical faith. I do know that no argument will shake my knowledge of God. You all on the forum my just think I am another religious nut but my relationship with God transcends religion. Take all the books and ceremonies away and the relationship I have with God still stands. I know He died for my sins and rose on the third day with all power and authority. I know Him and that relationship isn't a theory but a personal thing where He is directing me to move from my country or speak to a certain person or pray for a certain thing. These are things not found in the bible but are real.

Then stick around Rekeisha. You will hear many of our background stories, and may be surprised to learn that many, many of us come from hard-line evangelical/literalist Christian backgrounds like yours. I personally was raised Southern Baptist, we never missed church when its doors were open, and my parents were both active in the church through numerous programs, as I was, then. My dad is to this day leader of the church orchestra, while my mother is just retired this year as a department head and professor of speech/theatre at a private Baptist university (Louisiana College), though she has taken up part time teaching at Louisiana State University at Alexandria (LSU-A). I gave up my faith when I realized that I was doing "mental gymnastics" to keep from understanding the actual evidence about the world, and that my church had misled me as to the facts about science and even taught wrong information about other beliefs, including atheism. When I started to look into the facts, with an open mind, I discovered that (like Redbeard) I could no longer square my beliefs with what I had learned.

It is a question of basic intellectual honesty. No truly honest person would ever say, " I do know that no argument will shake my knowledge of _______." <--- It does not matter what goes into the blank; it is fundamentally (pun intended) dishonest to make any statement which precludes the ability to honestly examine your ideas and beliefs, and to change your mind if you are wrong.

Your relationship is not a "theory" because it doesn't even qualify as one. The label of Theory is the highest praise we can give to an idea, in science. It means that it has been repeatedly tested and proven to comport with all facts, and has been modified and changed when the facts do not fit, or a better explanation has been offered, until it withstands scrutiny from all who assail the idea. Atomic theory, germ theory, kinetics theory, the theory of evolution by natural selection, and the theory of gravity... all are ideas I hold but would change upon better evidence. That is called "intellectual honesty". Stopping one's self from doing it is what we referred to as "mental gymnastics", dodging each new idea that doesn't fit with our pet belief system.

I would be deeply ashamed of myself if I said that there was an idea--any idea--I held which could not be prevailed upon by evidence. And you should be, too.

Hello TheRocketSurgeon (dig the name) I don't think you read my statement correctly. I said no argument could shake my faith because there isn't any real evidence that can be presented that would refute the reality of God. Also if it were up to me to stay a Christian I wouldn't stay a Christian, but bless the Lord it isn't. God is the one who will keep me to the end. At the very moment I gave my life to Christ is the very moment that I couldn't lose my faith. When I was younger I used to be afraid of losing my faith and I learned later that no one can take anyone out of the Father's hands. It says that God saves to the utter most. The most that I do with my faith is obey what God says. When I was covered by the blood of Christ and was justified by His sacrifice, by dieing on the cross and rising from the dead, there is nothing that can cause me to lose it because my salvation isn't up to me but God.

There is a difference though from mental assent and faith. There are may people who are willing to say that Jesus is the Christ and God in the flesh but have never put their faith in him for saving them from their sins. There may even be an emotional attachment to God or a love for the church but that doesn't save a person. Who cares if you think Jesus is God it won't save you. What saves you is actually repenting of your sins accepting Jesus's death on the cross as your death, and His resurrection from the dead as you raising to new life. Your assurance of this transaction is that the Holy Spirit takes up habitation in your body. Your desires begin to line up with God's desires and sin is no longer enjoyable. If you have never experienced that then you were never a Christian.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Hello TheRocketSurgeon (dig the name) I don't think you read my statement correctly. I said no argument could shake my faith because there isn't any real evidence that can be presented that would refute the reality of God. Also if it were up to me to stay a Christian I wouldn't stay a Christian, but bless the Lord it isn't. God is the one who will keep me to the end. At the very moment I gave my life to Christ is the very moment that I couldn't lose my faith. When I was younger I used to be afraid of losing my faith and I learned later that no one can take anyone out of the Father's hands. It says that God saves to the utter most. The most that I do with my faith is obey what God says. When I was covered by the blood of Christ and was justified by His sacrifice, by dieing on the cross and rising from the dead, there is nothing that can cause me to lose it because my salvation isn't up to me but God.

There is a difference though from mental assent and faith. There are may people who are willing to say that Jesus is the Christ and God in the flesh but have never put their faith in him for saving them from their sins. There may even be an emotional attachment to God or a love for the church but that doesn't save a person. Who cares if you think Jesus is God it won't save you. What saves you is actually repenting of your sins accepting Jesus's death on the cross as your death, and His resurrection from the dead as you raising to new life. Your assurance of this transaction is that the Holy Spirit takes up habitation in your body. Your desires begin to line up with God's desires and sin is no longer enjoyable. If you have never experienced that then you were never a Christian.

Ahh, the No True Scotsman™. Guess I shouldn't be surprised to hear it from someone so obviously fanatical. Don't worry, you're not even close to the first to tell me that load of tripe.

How can you possibly begin to guess how I felt? I assure you, I was as "on fire for Jesus" as anyone you have ever met. However, I also have a strong streak of skepticism and had spent much of my childhood reading books besides the Bible (I also have read the Bible all the way through as a Believer, in two translations: NIV and NKJV, and have taken a university-level course on the History of the Bible, in which we practically read the whole thing again). I was a saved, or as we called it "born again" Christian and was studying the Word in order to get closer to Him, to repent of my sins and follow the Word of God, as we all did.

The difference is that, when faced with things that conflicted with what I was being taught in my church, I did not reject them simply because I did not like where the evidence led. When I found contradictions and plain errors in the Bible, which I was taught to believe was the unquestionable, literal Word of God, I did not ignore what I had found. Indeed, at first I looked more closely into these things because I wanted to be closer to God, and I recognized that it was possible that I was being a "Bible idolator" instead of trying to know my Creator wholly... after all, if the men who wrote the Bible put something in there that was not in agreement with what we could discover about the world around us, it meant that the Creator had done what we found, not what those men wrote.

You know the funny thing about it? I can't tell one major way in which I'm different, in terms of "sin desires", now than I was in the past, although I do find it much easier to realize that many of the "sins" that the Bible attributes to God's will are actually silly things, but I do not harm my fellow man, I do not hold violence or hatred in my heart (less so than even when I was a Christian), and I seek to do good because it is the best way to live as a moral, social animal-- human, in other words.

That is why I say I do not think you are being honest. An honest person would recognize that what they feel isn't necessarily the truth; an honest person would admit that the book in which they place their faith as the Word of God seems to be the work of humans, since God in that book orders/contains genocide, slavery, and almost every form of intolerance the Bronze Age tribal sheepherder priests held... and strangely, God makes several very easy mistakes that the Creator of the Universe would have known, but that the Hebrews did not know. (For one example, look at Genesis 30:25-47, where it describes a type of inheritance/adaptation that was disproven by Gregor Mendel when he discovered genetics...until the 1800s, everyone thought what the Bible taught was true, but now we know better.)

God knows no more than Bronze Age desert people. Now why is that? Be honest. Try it!

[Cyberman]

Was it an actual audible voice you heard, or a dream, or what?

[Rekeisha]

Divinity I believe all of the bible because Christianity doesn't work if you pick and choose. Chrisitany isn't about comfort or making others feel good about themselves it is about Jesus. It has always been about Jesus that is why it is call Christianity. Every word He has said, wither it goes with or against the norms of society, is to be followed. It is also a matter of integrity if you are going to follow Jesus that means following everything.

---

Whateverist the White I can't convince any of you that God exist that isn't my job. My Job or mission is to tell you and others about the gospel.

It cost me not because I have to be in your company but because the things that God calls me to are not always easy and I have to give up my control to allow Him to reign and rule my life. He knows what He is doing but at times I don't fully trust Him. The dieing to self is not a theory but an actual command. Instead of cursing I am called to bless. Instead of seeking my rights I am called to give up my self interest for others. The process of being changed from self-centered to God centered is not easy. I couldn't and wouldn't do it without the grace of God. I would rather not argue about abiogenesis or wither someone is real or not. When life starts, if the bible is full of lies or if God is evil. I would just love to wake up and laze around the house and enjoy my kids and husband. Still, that isn't what I am called to do. People are perishing and seeking my own comfort wold be an evil thing to do in light of what I know.

Readbeard the Pink usually what I say is what I mean. If I wanted to point to the fact that you have faith like I do I would have simply stated it. I was really getting at the double standard I find in some of your arguments. When I was speaking of lifestyle I was just saying the life style that neglects God. If we are talking about comparing a human to a human I don't know you well enough to say how good or bad you are. When I look at myself in light of Jesus I fall short. He is good and I am not. Peoples' standards of what good and bad are don't matter because in the end there will be a judgment and if I were to stand on my own merit in front of God I would be condemned for my actions.

I hear that you don't believe because of the evidence that you have found. That you said that you have had to do mental gymnastics. I don't know how you were brought up or what you believe so I can't say wither or not it was grounded in biblical faith. I do know that no argument will shake my knowledge of God. You all on the forum my just think I am another religious nut but my relationship with God transcends religion. Take all the books and ceremonies away and the relationship I have with God still stands. I know He died for my sins and rose on the third day with all power and authority. I know Him and that relationship isn't a theory but a personal thing where He is directing me to move from my country or speak to a certain person or pray for a certain thing. These are things not found in the bible but are real.

---

Jesus plainly said that he came only for the Jews.  So why do you think he came for you if you aren't a Jew?  It seems that you're calling him a liar (he was but that's beside the point).  

Matthew 15:24 = https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...JV;WEB;CEV

Hebrews 2:16 = https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=CEV

Read all of the Bible because cherry picking will cause you to make mistakes. Leviticus 19:34, Acts 28:28, Isa 56: 3-7, Isa 49:6, Isaiah 60:1-3, Jeremiah 16:19-21, Zechariah 2:11, Malachi 1:11, Romans 15:9-12 all talk about God calling the gentiles as well

He isn't just the God of the Jews He is God over every person.

[Cyberman]

"He" certainly isn't my god. What makes you think it's a "he" anyway?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

How come the fundamentalists never answer me?

[vorlon13]

Because we are all atheist scum and unsaved trash.


Sorry, thought we all knew that here.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

^^^ **furiously scribbling notes**

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Jesus plainly said that he came only for the Jews.  So why do you think he came for you if you aren't a Jew?  It seems that you're calling him a liar (he was but that's beside the point).  

Matthew 15:24 = https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...JV;WEB;CEV

Hebrews 2:16 = https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=CEV

Read all of the Bible because cherry picking will cause you to make mistakes. Leviticus 19:34, Acts 28:28, Isa 56: 3-7, Isa 49:6, Isaiah 60:1-3, Jeremiah 16:19-21, Zechariah 2:11, Malachi 1:11, Romans 15:9-12 all talk about God calling the gentiles as well

He isn't just the God of the Jews He is God over every person.

The God of the Bible is an ethnocentric racist bigot.  When he wasn't actively killing Gentiles he ignored them.  If you want him he's all yours.  But he will never want you.