General argument for Islam.

[robvalue]

The reason you won't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is you don't accept pasta as proof of the divine creator. This is your problem.

How is this different from what you are saying?

[Mystic]

The reason you won't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is you don't accept pasta as proof of the divine creator. This is your problem.

How is this different from what you are saying?

There is no relationship with accepting pasta and eternal pasta or exalted higher form of pasta. The nature of praise however is such that it increases in value, it has exalted ranks, it's origin is from an exalted source, and it's partially eternal.  And God is close to us such that our praise is more of his praise and belongs to him more then it belongs to us. The same is not true of spaghetti.

[pocaracas]

3) Super elite in goodness servants of God existing.
4) The servants in 4, are most fit for leadership and guiding humanity, and would receive exalted wisdom.
5) They would guide humanity and share their wisdom to their best of their capacity.
6) These servants are be found in religion.
7) The way God uses such servants to guide humanity has an exalted wisdom and praise.
8) That exalted wisdom is uniquely found in the Quran/Islam or religions that are offshoots of the Quran.

You know what I see in all these?
PEOPLE!
People desiring control over other people.
PEOPLE!
Not gods, not a single god. Just PEOPLE!
The ever power-hungry people of the world.

And, for some reason, these people managed to convince a lot of other people that this BS is actually praiseworthy.... you included!
They've convinced people that it is good that only a few select individuals have real contact with the god of choice. And that is as it should be, huh? God needs to hide behind the few PEOPLE with whom he talks and send his messages, because... FUCK IT, god's shy and afraid of his creation, or something... I don't know...
It makes no sense.
A god that requires a human intermediary in order to make himself known to mankind? Sounds awfully like the intermediary made up the whole thing... HECK, it even looks like some intermediaries have been made up!

"What does god need with a starship?!" (Kirk)

[The Grand Nudger]

If you don't discuss the particular problem you have, then it's not a discussion. If you just generally say I've proven nothing, then that's not a discussion.

Again...I don't have a problem.  You do.  This is your argument for islam..remember?  Is there something to discuss...if you haven't proven anything?  None of the statements made have been quantified, and none of the statements made lead to any conclusion you've expressed.  I refuse to go through line by line - because frankly...I think you'll waste my time.  

It's simple enough to say that I just don't believe you Mystic.   That's my every response to your list.  I don't believe you.  It's your baby, if you want me to believe you then you need to do work.  If it annoys you to hear me pointing out that you've proven nothing...then prove something? Failing either (as we will) we could at least demonstrate something, or consider the experience, or discuss commonality between the way you view the quran and the way I view the arthur myth in our respective frameworks.

[robvalue]

So praise is better than pasta because you say so?

Well I can just say you are wrong, and pasta has all the qualities of God. Praise doesn't get you closer to God, pasta does. You cannot see this as you are blinded by praise.

Since neither of us is offering any objective evidence, it's just my word against yours,

[Mystic]

You know what I see in all these?
PEOPLE!
People desiring control over other people.
PEOPLE!
Not gods, not a single god. Just PEOPLE!
The ever power-hungry people of the world.

People are desiring to control people that's for sure. But would the most good people sit and watch while selfish people misguide the masses. 
And who is more worthy to control us and have authority over us then God? What is more honorable, leaving us to selfish people or our own selves, or God giving us guidance from him and his authority and rope to cling to.
Think about it.

And, for some reason, these people managed to convince a lot of other people that this BS is actually praiseworthy.... you included!
They've convinced people that it is good that only a few select individuals have real contact with the god of choice. And that is as it should be, huh? God needs to hide behind the few PEOPLE with whom he talks and send his messages, because... FUCK IT, god's shy and afraid of his creation, or something... I don't know...
It makes no sense.

If you want God to contact you, then you have to be ready to be at his service, be his sincere servant. Otherwise, you will increase in injustice. The following prayer has been transmitted through numerous authentic chains from the Twelve successors of the Prophet:
My Lord, grant me complete severance of my relations with everything else and total submission to You. Enlighten the eyes of our hearts with the light of their looking at You to the extent that they penetrate the veils of light and reach the Source of Grandeur, and let our souls get suspended by the glory of Your sanctity.
My Lord, make me one of those whom You call and they respond; when You look at and they are thunderstruck by Your majesty. You whisper to them secretly and they work for You openly.

The Prophets came so we can have a close relationship to God, to see his glory, to trade looks with him, but it requires sincerity, and the first step is to be at peace with the guidance of God that has come to you.

---

So praise is better than pasta because you say so?

Well I can just say you are wrong, and pasta has all the qualities of God. Praise doesn't get you closer to God, pasta does. You cannot see this as you are blinded by praise.

Since neither of us is offering any objective evidence, it's just my word against yours,

Your argument is a form ad hoc.

[The Grand Nudger]

There is no relationship with accepting praise and eternal praise or exalted higher form of praise. The nature of pasta however is such that it increases in value, it has exalted ranks, it's origin is from an exalted source, and it's partially eternal.  And God is close to us such that our pasta is more of his pasta and belongs to him more then it belongs to us. The same is not true of compliments.

I don't seem to be increasing in injustice..btw, and I've never said the words to your magic spell. I think whoever told you that might be full of shit.

[Mystic]

There is also interesting narration:

Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq while talking about women says,  "God is veiled and loves veiling."


God has veils of darkness and veils of light. To unveil the veils, we must become God's lover, in the same way, a Muslim woman only unveils her Hijaab to her lover (ie. husband).

---

There is no relationship with accepting praise and eternal praise or exalted higher form of praise. The nature of pasta however is such that it increases in value, it has exalted ranks, it's origin is from an exalted source, and it's partially eternal.  And God is close to us such that our pasta is more of his pasta and belongs to him more then it belongs to us. The same is not true of compliments.

I don't seem to be increasing in injustice..btw, and I've never said the words to your magic spell.  I think whoever told you that might be full of shit.

This is an ad hoc argument. 

[The Grand Nudger]

So I suppose that's some consolation for being born a woman in a muslim culture.  

I don't think that you know what ad hoc means...or argument, for that matter.

[robvalue]

Err....

I give up. I hope your religion brings you happiness