Some theists are just to far gone

[dyresand]

I'd say that all theists are too far gone.  If you really believe in that shit your brain is mush.

(I realize there are many who are just born into it and give it no thought at all.)

That is a bit harsh.  Many people escape from theism.

It would be different if people were properly raised, and then they adopted theism.  Then I would agree, their minds are mush.  But many people are very thoroughly indoctrinated as children, and so, for a time, they believe some drivel.  The smarter ones escape, but one cannot judge the level of intelligence purely by how long it takes to come to one's senses, as some people are more thoroughly indoctrinated than others.

Yeah but it tends to be later in life or if they are lucky enough preteen or teenage years. That is if they are so far into that mindset. 
Even still religious leaders should be called out all religion should be challenged for the better of people in general.  But the toxic behavior and mindset
is catching up with religion as of now and i called a few people out on it. 

[Minimalist]

That is a bit harsh.

Harsh?   Moi??

[robvalue]

I have to sympathise with people who are brought up being told a particular religion is simply true, and they experience almost no one who doesn't believe the same thing. I would not think that person dumb for falling in line. After all, they are relying on their parents, and to a lesser extent society at large, to tell them everything they need to know when their minds are a blank slate. They haven't had the chance to form their own educated opinions about how the world works, or have the critical thinking skills in place to challenge what is being fed to them.

I feel very sorry for them, I view them as victims. Their minds have been violated, sometimes so hard that they can never let go of all that stuff. It's shocking: spending the whole of the one life we know for sure we have believing it's nothing but a warm up or some sort of twisted test. It takes a lot of courage to consider that you have been fed bullshit by your parents your whole life. That is what the theists of today must decide for themselves now they have the opportunity to openly discuss things such as on this forum. Are they prepared to accept that possibility or not? They have the opportunity for this kind of discussion more than ever before.

My hope is that an insular environment is going to be harder and harder to maintain. The rise of atheism, along with the Internet, gives me hope. It appears the newer generations are less and less willing to swallow the pills now. Sickeningly, where religion is enforced not only by societal threats but by actual death threats, it's going to take a long time and a lot of hard work before being even openly atheist is something anyone could consider in that environment. Although I do wonder if their brutal "education" tactics are producing more and more closet atheists, who will one day unite, as their environment is slowly getting a little less insular via the Internet. I hope so.

I would like to think no one is so far gone that they could never come round to reason. But I have to be honest, I think a lot of people are.

[Mental Outlaw]

Adam, is that you? I didn't know you were on AF. You crazy GModder, you.

Yeah, some are really too far gone. It's usually more effective to go for the more liberal to moderate theists, than to worry about a fundy. Unfortunately one of the most famous fundies around here, Ken Ham, gets to indoctrinate many kids. Thanks Australia.

I'm not Adam but i do know him i gotten into games with him. Same with other famous youtubers.

People need to realize that well... children should be taught religion later on in life than early on.
Well now it doesn't matter because kids are going to call out and say magic is bullshit these days thanks to technology.
But even still the mindset of christians like the one above is not helping their religion it is really toxic to their own cause; 

I actually think children should be taught religion early on (between 5th and 8th grade) but they should have it taught to them the same way we teach Greek and Roman mythology because that's what it is MYTHOLOGY.  I also think its worth knowing about the major religions because they are a cultural phenomenon and a part of history, plus its important to know that if a masked man yells "ALLAHU AKBAR" your have to get the hell outta there and fast!

[Chad32]

I'd have no problem with teaching the bible in school, and the culture surrounding it, as long as they don't treat it as the inspired truth of the one true god. If they had bible class one week, and quran class the next week, and bagvadgita class the next week, that would be fine. However, any time some christian is trying to push bible study in school, that's likely not the way they want it taught.

some people really are just raised in it, only knowing that obeying their parents is the only thing they can do without being punished. some, like me, leave religion soon after growing up because of that.

[Minimalist]

If they had bible class one week, and quran class the next week, and bagvadgita class the next week, that would be fine.

[Pyrrho]

A comparative religion class is a good idea. It is helpful for people to learn about other points of view.

[Secular Elf]

I heard a catholic say today, babies are narcissistic...Feed me, give me the bottle, carry me.. and thats one of the reasons they need to be baptized... wtf??? yeah.. too far gone...

It is probably a rationalization to try to justify the preexisting belief that babies need to be baptized.  Much of what people say regarding their reasoning is that way.  They start with a conclusion, and then look for reasons to justify it.

Yeah, it is like "babies don't need us, they can survive on their own without all the whining and crying and hissy fits."  That attitude is just damned fucked up!

---

I'd say that all theists are too far gone.  If you really believe in that shit your brain is mush.

(I realize there are many who are just born into it and give it no thought at all.)

That is a bit harsh.  Many people escape from theism.

It would be different if people were properly raised, and then they adopted theism.  Then I would agree, their minds are mush.  But many people are very thoroughly indoctrinated as children, and so, for a time, they believe some drivel.  The smarter ones escape, but one cannot judge the level of intelligence purely by how long it takes to come to one's senses, as some people are more thoroughly indoctrinated than others.

The indoctrination seems to work like a virus of the mind.  Dr. Darrel W. Ray wrote a book called "The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture."  He explained it as a type of meme that acts like a virus, it infects and takes over the mental state of the believer to produce another mental state.  I saw him speak at a meeting of the Atlanta Freethought Society once and again at the Lake Hypatia retreat one July 4th weekend.  I bought his book and it is available online as a pdf if you want to check it out.  Here is a vid of him as a guest on The Atheist Experience with co-host Matt Dillahnty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPN3UlxCXH4

[robvalue]

The hilarious thing is that the last thing a christian parent would want is for the truth about christianity to be taught to their children.

I'd be all for teaching the facts about religions, at a suitable age. 7 sounds good. It would be funny in fact. Sadly indoctrination has nothing to do with facts

[Chad32]

Yeah. If we're going to start banning things for having a lot of violence and sex in it, the bible is one of the things that needs to go. That's why they say you have to be "in the spirit" or something when you read the book. Taken from a skeptical point of view, especially when you learn about the culture and history surrounding the bible, isn't going to strengthen most people's faith.