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Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 1:34 am
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2015 at 1:53 am by Mystical.
Edit Reason: Eta: reference link
)
CNN Wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/o...index.html
After the Supreme Court's week of high-profile decisions, Oklahoma's high court made a stir of its own in a ruling that had a group of self-proclaimed Satanists and an ordained Baptist minister celebrating.
The Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the state must remove a 6-foot tall granite monument of the Ten Commandments from its capitol because it violates the state's constitutional ban against the use of public funds or property to benefit a religion.
The decision came after years of controversy and legal battles. The monument's supporters include prominent figures in the state, including Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin and members of the state's legislature.
In an interview with CNN affiliate KOCO, Bruce Prescott, an ordained Baptist minister and one of the plaintiffs in the suit against the display, said, "I'm not opposed to Ten Commandments monuments. I'm just opposed to the placement on government property, because I think that the government needs to be neutral."
Bravo to this guy. I'd vote him into public office even.
Bold added by myself. When I was a Christian I understood the need for the separation. Why are sooooooo many theists in denial about this issue? Is it because they believe (their) gods law is above all law? If so, then would you Christians rather be put on trial with an openly biased Muslim, or would you want to be judged fairly and equally based on the facts at hand and judged accordingly with the laws set in place by a majority decision despite the religious implications of a book that has no relevance to government (ie: if you cheated on your spouse and a religious text dictates that you be stoned to death)?
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 1:36 am
Because they benefit from its absence?
Welcome back Luckie! Hope you're doing ok
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 1:41 am
It's alivvvvvveeeeee.....
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 1:42 am
They understand it just fine. They just don't like it. They want the government to support their bullshit ( but no others).
It's why you cannot give xtians an inch. Ever.
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 2:03 am
Hey! The Bosnian spy remembers me, I feel special now!
...
You uh, you don't have records of me reminding you of my infidel status though and that's the only reason you remember me, right? *laughs sidewardly
I'm alive and kickin, yes Chtulhu. Didn't I tell you my nickname is Luckie for a reason? I mostly lurk suspicipusly from the shadows for the time being.. I miss you all though!
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 2:16 am
(July 5, 2015 at 1:42 am)Minimalist Wrote: They understand it just fine. They just don't like it. They want the government to support their bullshit ( but no others).
It's why you cannot give xtians an inch. Ever.
Yeah but I'm confused still because when I was a Christian I liked to think I was on the side of righteousness which includes honesty and doing the right thing, and abiding by the rules of the land so long as they didn't conflict with my salvation. I felt I had to be honest with myself and others and there's just no way I would have felt upright as a Christian if I opposed the separation of religion and government. Even then I knew the horrific historical consequences of doing so. So I just can't seem to relate one way or another with these people who adamantly demand their Ten Commandments be lifted up above all the other religious totems and displayed on goverent property?
Perhaps a Christian could enlighten me on the subject?
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 2:22 am
(July 5, 2015 at 2:03 am)Luckie Wrote: Hey! The Bosnian spy remembers me, I feel special now!
...
You uh, you don't have records of me reminding you of my infidel status though and that's the only reason you remember me, right? *laughs sidewardly
*shoves papers under the rug*
What records?
Bunnies are memorable c:
Have some welcome back cake!!
Cut yourself a slice....they don't let me hold the knife anymore :c
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 2:25 am
Quote:Yeah but I'm confused still because when I was a Christian I liked to think I was on the side of righteousness which includes honesty and doing the right thing, and abiding by the rules of the land so long as they didn't conflict with my salvation
Everything they don't like conflicts with their fucking salvation. Or so they think.
You are dealing with flaming assholes there, you know.
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 2:30 am
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2015 at 2:32 am by robvalue.)
Welcome back! It's lovely to hear from you Hope you're feeling OK?
It's been my experience of the troublesome element of American Christianity that they cannot differentiate between religion and "my religion", nor between God and "my god". Because they are such a big majority they don't need protecting as such, although ironically they'd be the first to scream persecution if their religion actually was held against them.
Such people need to see things from others' point of view, and to visualise a situation where Christians are in the minority. I think they still see America as a Christian country, and that's a problem.
Props to the American Christians who understand and support secularism. They represent the future of religion if it is to survive I think, and are the people who want to happily coexist rather than impose their rule.
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RE: Why can't most Christians understand the need for separation of religion and govt?
July 5, 2015 at 2:38 am
Welcome back Luckie!
Christers want to close the divide between church and state because they believe their morality, as handed down by gawd on high, is best suited to be the guiding morality of the land. They simply do not consider that with enough immigration and breeding, they could be living in a muslim majority country in less than a century and bending a knee to sharia law.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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