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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm
Having atheist leaders declared is inevitable.
There will always be a more vocal and popular member of a group that "stands out" to people. If we as individuals choose not to give a crow to someone, I assure you that the media will.
The media has already declared people such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens as atheist leaders.
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 10, 2015 at 9:52 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm)VeryBerryMix Wrote: Having atheist leaders declared is inevitable.
There will always be a more vocal and popular member of a group that "stands out" to people. If we as individuals choose not to give a crow to someone, I assure you that the media will.
The media has already declared people such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens as atheist leaders.
They act as such anyway - Why else would you give a lecture to a group you identify with (skeptics) and tell them what you think is true and how they should act?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 10, 2015 at 9:55 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 9:52 pm)Dystopia Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 9:50 pm)VeryBerryMix Wrote: Having atheist leaders declared is inevitable.
There will always be a more vocal and popular member of a group that "stands out" to people. If we as individuals choose not to give a crow to someone, I assure you that the media will.
The media has already declared people such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens as atheist leaders.
They act as such anyway - Why else would you give a lecture to a group you identify with (skeptics) and tell them what you think is true and how they should act?
Exactly.
Atheism consists of a group of people and every group has its more influential people. Just human nature.
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 10, 2015 at 10:24 pm
(July 10, 2015 at 8:02 pm)Dystopia Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 6:06 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: What is "organized atheism" but a slippery slope toward movements like A+?
All atheists have in common is their lack of belief in deities.
Yes, and go tell that to Richard Dawkins
People stop bitching - If you don't like the idea of atheists having leaders you should go tell that to those who organize themselves and appoint them. Any group can organize itself with common interest and pick leaders and rules, it's actually a normal social feature. Atheists are no exception. Are you sad about this? Ok, then stop taking the four horsemen's stand as if it was special or even intellectually consistent.
What am I bitching about, exactly?
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 10, 2015 at 11:04 pm
I think the first sentence was for you.
And then the next was for people in general.
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 11, 2015 at 8:28 am
(July 10, 2015 at 10:24 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 8:02 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Yes, and go tell that to Richard Dawkins
People stop bitching - If you don't like the idea of atheists having leaders you should go tell that to those who organize themselves and appoint them. Any group can organize itself with common interest and pick leaders and rules, it's actually a normal social feature. Atheists are no exception. Are you sad about this? Ok, then stop taking the four horsemen's stand as if it was special or even intellectually consistent.
What am I bitching about, exactly? It wasn't for you, I used the paragraph and the word "people" to avoid misunderstandings. Sorry.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 11, 2015 at 8:45 am
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2015 at 8:47 am by Excited Penguin.)
(July 10, 2015 at 8:02 pm)Dystopia Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 6:06 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: What is "organized atheism" but a slippery slope toward movements like A+?
All atheists have in common is their lack of belief in deities.
Yes, and go tell that to Richard Dawkins
People stop bitching - If you don't like the idea of atheists having leaders you should go tell that to those who organize themselves and appoint them. Any group can organize itself with common interest and pick leaders and rules, it's actually a normal social feature. Atheists are no exception. Are you sad about this? Ok, then stop taking the four horsemen's stand as if it was special or even intellectually consistent.
You're a fucking moron. I pegged you right the first time around. Tell what to Dawkins? He's first a scientist, second an educator and only then an atheist. You people who have something against the "New Atheists" forget to actually listen to them and fall into the propaganda of imbeciles from the atheist movements who want to make as much money as these ones. You're fucking disgusting and I think you probably deserve it. Go lead a bullshit life having pretentious and wrong ideas about the majority of things like that.
WHat's your problem with Dawkins and Harris anyway?
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 11, 2015 at 8:57 am
(July 11, 2015 at 8:45 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: (July 10, 2015 at 8:02 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Yes, and go tell that to Richard Dawkins
People stop bitching - If you don't like the idea of atheists having leaders you should go tell that to those who organize themselves and appoint them. Any group can organize itself with common interest and pick leaders and rules, it's actually a normal social feature. Atheists are no exception. Are you sad about this? Ok, then stop taking the four horsemen's stand as if it was special or even intellectually consistent.
You're a fucking moron. I pegged you right the first time around. Tell what to Dawkins? He's first a scientist, second an educator and only then an atheist. You people who have something against the "New Atheists" forget to actually listen to them and fall into the propaganda of imbeciles from the atheist movements who want to make as much money as these ones. You're fucking disgusting and I think you probably deserve it. Go lead a bullshit life having pretentious and wrong ideas about the majority of things like that.
WHat's your problem with Dawkins and Harris anyway? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL - Dawkins is known most of all by being an atheist and writing books like The God Delusion, and only then as a scientist. He has a book called The God Delusion, he gets lectures to criticize religion, he has tweets criticizng religion. he is invited for debates to criticize religion - It seems obvious what makes him famous, am I right.
My problem - They promote groupthinking as much as any other person or group and some atheists seem them as being always right and that's a very dangerous idea. I listened to them, I have read The God Delusion - I don't get the big deal about it, I was expecting something more rational and intellectually sophisticated. It's terrible to think A+ is a bad group and suddenly Richard Dawkins' following cult is ok because Dawkins is different. I have no issue with any of them as people, and some points are good, but for the most part I was expecting more. Someone like Freud who actually studied religion and knew how to criticize it made more contributions against religion on a paper than Dawkins in a lifetime
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 11, 2015 at 9:06 am
(July 11, 2015 at 8:57 am)Dystopia Wrote: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL - Dawkins is known most of all by being an atheist and writing books like The God Delusion, and only then as a scientist. He has a book called The God Delusion, he gets lectures to criticize religion, he has tweets criticizng religion. he is invited for debates to criticize religion - It seems obvious what makes him famous, am I right.
My problem - They promote groupthinking as much as any other person or group and some atheists seem them as being always right and that's a very dangerous idea. I listened to them, I have read The God Delusion - I don't get the big deal about it, I was expecting something more rational and intellectually sophisticated. It's terrible to think A+ is a bad group and suddenly Richard Dawkins' following cult is ok because Dawkins is different. I have no issue with any of them as people, and some points are good, but for the most part I was expecting more. Someone like Freud who actually studied religion and knew how to criticize it made more contributions against religion on a paper than Dawkins in a lifetime
You're wrong. Dawkins is more famous for being an educator since he's been doing it for decades.He only wrote the God Delusion in 2006. He is famous for it too, and he is widely regarded as the most famous atheist in the world, but that is not a bad thing, nor does it say anything about him as an author. He should be praised for helping more people reject religion but not much more than that, in the "atheist" department - nor is anyone thinking otherwise, I don't think.
Anyway, we don't measure people for what they're famous for, but for their actual contributions. Dawkins is a pretty smart man, he contributed some as a biologist and is a well established scientist. His opinion is not to be simply swept under the rug, just because you're going through a phase now.
I haven't read Dawkins much though(not at all, actually). I only know of him through second sources and through waching many videos with him either debating, talking, being interviewed or taking interviews, etc. So I wouldn't stick my hand in the fire for him. But your presumptions are still wrong - I'm fairly sure about that.
As for Harris, I'm pretty fucking sure you're wrong there. Before telling us we should forget about him, maybe you should try refuting everything he ever said or wrote in print. Go ahead, I'll be waiting.
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RE: 8 atheist leaders actually worth listening to
July 11, 2015 at 9:20 am
I think "influential atheists" is a more accurate term than leaders.
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