Theists, what does faith mean to you?

[Catholic_Lady]

Here it is:

 I find it quite interesting how the word "faith" has evolved over the last few hundred years and even more so in the last 20 years.  In the world’s eyes, to say "I have faith" means: I believe something but I’m not sure if it’s true or real, but I need it to be and I want it to be, so I have faith. You make that big leap into the dark. Strong faith, therefore, would be when you suspect what you believe isn’t true, and you are still able to believe it. That’s strong faith. The strongest possible kind of faith you could have would be when you know it’s not true and you’re still able to believe it. I mean, how much faith do you need then?

The word faith comes from the Latin 'fides' from which we get the word "fidelity".  Simlarly in Greek, The word faith comes from the Greek word 'pistis'.  This word, pistis, ultimately comes from the verb "peitho", which means "to be persuaded". ‘Pistis’, therefore, the noun, carries the same kind of connotation. It means that you are persuaded as to something’s truth and reality, therefore you can trust it.

[Pyrrho]

I wasn't using it as an argument to try to make a convincing case for God's existence to someone else. Just explaining why I personally, have faith.

The whole point of "faith" is that it does not require a reason for the believer.  That's the whole point of it.

Yes.  Otherwise, there is no point in even mentioning faith at all.  If one has actual evidence, one can mention that and use the actual evidence to support one's position.  It is only when one lacks real evidence that mentioning faith serves any real purpose.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

^ That is actually very much accurate

[Mystic]

Saying you believe and even convincing yourself that you believe, per Quran, are not sufficient qualifications for true faith in God or his Signs/proofs/pointers/guidance.  Rather it takes seeing power of the heart, understanding, reflection, light, knowledge, and trust that is justified.  This is through his name/face which gives light to all things and embraces all things. A living connection from the unseen to the seen, light with every light.

This what "faith" means in Quran. I'm not sure of the Bible or other religions, but convincing yourself that you know something to be true is not the praised faith discussed by his Prophets or Chosen ones.

[Minimalist]

And your evidence for "prophets" and "chosen ones" is?

[Mystic]

And your evidence for "prophets" and "chosen ones" is?

First God himself is the reality by which other beings get their rank from and stages from, and I've even discussed this as a proof of God because when there is ranks in creation it implies we are ascending or falling with respect to an absolute reality that is  of value and of utmost high rank.  It's by rational we know God is infinite in grace and would create infinite creation (infinite universes as a result). This gives room for infinite potential of infinite exalted souls including perfect souls. Through God's Name, we are reminded of a special love he has towards his chosen ones, purifying them and blessing them with immense blessings that make them very near his glory, taste of his unseen beauty and majesty, and we know we too been created for the purpose of this path. As we are fallen, our hearts are chained, we are deceived by delusions of this world and unseen darkness in our hearts (pointing to dark forces on human hearts), we are in need of divine reminder and due to the position of the Lord, a special admonishment of the Lord will have a special effect. As well, his exalted pure chosen ones would be most fit to guide humanity. Out of wisdom it makes sense God tested these souls and there exists in his knowledge trustworthy souls by which he can entrust his messages too. From the hidden unseen forces, he chosen from his Angels and chosen Angels. From sentient beings that live on planets he chose to place his best servants there. Consequently due to his praiseworthy nature and majestic wisdom, he begins with his perfect souls in each universe thereby teaching the unseen forces (Angels) and also seals perfection in sentient beings by placing guides among them.   

God has a special love for his special lovers and most sincere servants, and the way he uses them and exalts them, is manifested through his greatest name. Consequently, this wisdom would be manifested and reminded, by which he tries and guides and raises his servants through his chosen ones. The praise belongs to God of how his way with his elite friends. 

It also makes sense aside from this, that is logical that God would want us to follow the best of his creation as opposed to people greedy for leadership. As humanity generally is lead by greedy people and his friends find oppression and injustice spread through them, it makes sense God being the Lord of the universe, would place a balance in form of a Mastership and leadership and handhold and rope from him.  Otherwise, the best servants would have no way to manifest their guidance, and jealousy towards what they claim would blind people to their station without much help from God to prove their station.

Aside from this is that we are indeed in falling state, and in desperate need of reminder and awakening. Consequently the best servants who are in contact with God cannot make known their contact with the divine and there guided path, unless, through God manifesting their leadership and guidance.

Aside from this, is God is Unseen, and his path to him is unseen, but also takes application in the real world. As we have divine treasures within us, it makes sense God would not spoil this gift but through is mercy and compassion establish a program by which we seek to perfect the divine treasures and links with the higher stations meant for us.  And as the path to him is unseen, he would remind us of the guidance that is unseen through company of a spiritual guide that shows the way. Consequently, emphasizing to know who this guide is in each time and age, is of the utmost wisdom, because by that, he would make being a handhold and rope of his to unite upon. 

If you are asking how God would prove their authority, it's by 1) physical miracles 2) a book/revelation from him that designates them and is of such majestic quality that it is beyond the scope of creation to do.  As God's mind is perfect, he can surely create literature that is way beyond the scope of humanity. And we have the capacity to appreciate literature being beyond our capability.  It just it takes reflection to appreciate this higher literature. The reason it takes reflection is 1) dark forces want us to belittle it and put locks regarding it 2) it's of subtle and discrete majesties otherwise it would be too easy.

And it's through the reflection of the heart that the divine majestic speech is realized, a sublime wisdom, to majestic for humanity to copy.

Now sure a lot of religions can claim that, but you have to look for yourself and study yourself if you believe logically that it follows:

1) God's Praise leads to belief there would be exalted chosen ones he would make leaders and ways toward him, being exalted in wisdom, they would want to share their wisdom and God would command them to share their wisdom.
2) God's wisdom is that he would reveal a book proving their authority as their wisdom cannot be proven to most people except through proof.
3) This book would be through reflection proven beyond capability of mortals, and that is why it is a proof.

And it would make sense to me, that the holy book itself would emphasize on this wisdom.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Mystic Knight, I'm confused by your post. You mention the Quran as being testament to the undeniable wisdom of god, yet posit this is because it possesses "majesty beyond our creation and scope." This makes no sense; it's clearly not beyond our comprehension since it has been conveyed in words we understand, it's clearly not beyond our understanding since it has spawned numerous interpretations over the centuries by countless individuals, and it's clearly not beyond our capacity to imitate as the veritable number of translations bear testament to. So what exactly limits its authorship to a non-human source? What is preventing it from being man-made if all the viable prerequisites are in place for a human author writing a book for a human audience with a message crafted to be understood by humans? 

You say we have the capacity to appreciate literature beyond our understanding and I'm inclined to agree. Case in point, the Voynich Manuscript. It has fascinated cryptologists and linguistics alike ever since its discovery. Despite intensive efforts by code-breakers to discern the contents hidden within the seemingly non-sensical symbols, it has so far managed to elude all attempts at deciphering. Yet we appreciate it anyway, we appreciate this very humanly made manuscript despite, if not for, it's enigmatic gibberish. There is one person that understands the message hidden within that book, it's human creator. 

So if a human can create something like the Voynich Manuscript using only the powers of their imagination, how does that bear in relation to your very understandable Quran? How exactly is a message which can be understood by all be beyond our capacity to create if a message that can only be understood by one has a human brainchild behind its genesis? Furthermore, if god's wisdom and/or nature was so complex or wholly enlightened to the point that it was impossible to understand it in any manner, how exactly would writing a book to document its wisdom for humans be of any help? What would prevent that book from becoming just another Voynich Manuscript sans the human author? 

You don't have another Voynich Manuscript though, your religion has the Quran, a very understandable and certainly translatable book. You could argue that your scripture reveals the inspired word of God or even the literal word of God, but to declare the contents of the book itself to be beyond the abilities of "human creation or scope" is counterintuitive at best and blatantly false at worst. The fact it can be conveyed, understood, and copied into various different human languages defeats that argument.

[Mystic]

If I can witness a certain piece of writing is really great, does it mean I personally have the capability of replicating it.

Suppose I appreciate Harry Potter. Does it mean because I can appreciate it, I can replicate it?

[Whateverist]

Does it mean because you can appreciate it, you can not replicate or even surpass it? I don't think this argument helps you. There is absolutely no way you verify that anything is divine or supernatural so long as you are not those things yourself. You can wonder. You can speculate. What you can't do is reason from your appreciation to the presence of the divine or the supernatural.

[robvalue]

I'd like to say firstly that this discussion is very polite! Way too polite, so I want to say fuckweasels

Now that's out of the way, I wanted to make an observation. I think we're dealing with two entirely different approaches to beliefs and evidence. I'm not meaning to judge either, simply to observe.

CL, and the vast majority of theists I've ever talked to, are happy to accept evidence that is apparent only to them to justify their beliefs to themselves.

People like me (if there is anyone like me) would never be satisfied believing anything that they couldn't reasonably demonstrate to others; in other words the evidence is virtually useless if it can't be examined by someone else.

For the above reason, I would conclude that various strange things I've experienced are far more likely to be glitches in my system than something actually real. Someone in CL's group may instead interpret them as something real and form beliefs out of them.