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Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 28, 2015 at 11:15 pm)Cato Wrote:
(July 28, 2015 at 10:18 pm)ktrap Wrote: If you really an atheist, you need to apply the same logic regarding the existence of Alien Life as you do regarding the existence of God.


I do. Neither exist. Your move.

  First Atheist I found to be consistent.  Either it exists or it doesn't (1 or 0).  Therefore the probability of Alien Life is not any better than the probability for God if you are an atheist.  For me as a theist God exists and Alien Life can exist even if no evidence of it is at hand.   I have more respect for an Atheist who draws conclusions consistently even though I may disagree with them.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:45 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(July 30, 2015 at 7:11 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (emphasis is mine)

Well then. You should have no trouble presenting some real, testable, verifiable evidence for your gawd then.

What you keep missing (and it's really quite simple) is that all you need to do to get us to take you seriously is present some actual evidence. So far all you've ever brought is personal testimony and logical fallacies. Bring some real, testable, verifiable evidence and we will all consider it. Until then, please continue on like a 5-year old.

 I haven't what you require, God does go to Him and find out, it's what I did and now I know.

GC
(emphasis is mine)

Believe me, I know it.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:41 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:
(July 30, 2015 at 10:18 pm)ktrap Wrote: Without God everything would cease to exist.

Would you please serve your bullshit with a side of evidence or not at all.

 Look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Do I come from nothing?"
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:56 pm)ktrap Wrote:
(July 30, 2015 at 10:41 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Would you please serve your bullshit with a side of evidence or not at all.

 Look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Do I come from nothing?"

That's your evidence? Bitch, please.

Don't know about you, but I came from two parents. Your gawd had nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
I sprang fully grown from Zeus' head.

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:56 pm)ktrap Wrote:
(July 30, 2015 at 10:41 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Would you please serve your bullshit with a side of evidence or not at all.

 Look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Do I come from nothing?"

And the answer is yeah, I'm pretty sure I do. I'm also pretty sure everything else does, too. Physicists are starting to agree with me, actually.

See, antimatter is definitely a real thing, it just doesn't occur naturally in very many places in the Universe because the moment you add it to regular matter, they annihilate each other and create nothing. Physicists are now exploring the possibility that the same process can be done in reverse, getting us remarkably close to a scientific explanation for an origin of all matter and energy from nothing.

And if we come from nothing and will return to nothing, what's so bad about that? Why do you have such a hard time believing it?
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)

Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
I want to give another nod to kingpin for having the balls to debate other theists here. He probably doesn't realise he's doing anything special! But for those of us who have been here longer, you'll know most theists generally refuse to ever challenge each other no matter what insane or horrific shit they are writing. Even though they often disagree with each other more than with us, they tend to amalgamate against the "common enemy". I'm still a relative newcomer, but I've been here long enough to get a feel for this kind of thing.

The atheists however are happy to rip each other a new arse hole (in the nicest possible way) any time someone's gob writes a cheque their ass can't cash Wink
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:50 pm)ktrap Wrote:
(July 28, 2015 at 11:15 pm)Cato Wrote: I do. Neither exist. Your move.

  First Atheist I found to be consistent.  Either it exists or it doesn't (1 or 0).  Therefore the probability of Alien Life is not any better than the probability for God if you are an atheist.  For me as a theist God exists and Alien Life can exist even if no evidence of it is at hand.   I have more respect for an Atheist who draws conclusions consistently even though I may disagree with them.

While Cato's criteria for signing off on either one in any particular case may be the same, the arguments which can be made for thinking there must be life else where in the universe totally kicks the ass of any 'argument' in favor of the existence of gods.

For starters, it doesn't appear that the number and variety of elements in other planetary systems in our galaxy or across the galaxies are much different from those found in our own. It is reasonable to assume that from the same starting conditions similar results will follow.

(July 30, 2015 at 10:56 pm)ktrap Wrote:
(July 30, 2015 at 10:41 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Would you please serve your bullshit with a side of evidence or not at all.

 Look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Do I come from nothing?"

Guess you got me there.  I certainly don't recall a time in which I didn't exist.  For all we know, we are living on a very, very, VERY young earth on which our parents were created fully mature with implanted memories.  We are the world, right?
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:56 pm)ktrap Wrote:
(July 30, 2015 at 10:41 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Would you please serve your bullshit with a side of evidence or not at all.

 Look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Do I come from nothing?"

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Try again.

If I asked you to prove to me the existence of your wife, would you tell me to look in the mirror too? -_-

btw, creator=/=god, and certainly not your particular version of a particular theistic deity.
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RE: Theists - how certain are you that a God exists?
(July 30, 2015 at 10:50 pm)ktrap Wrote: First Atheist I found to be consistent.  Either it exists or it doesn't (1 or 0).  Therefore the probability of Alien Life is not any better than the probability for God if you are an atheist.  For me as a theist God exists and Alien Life can exist even if no evidence of it is at hand.   I have more respect for an Atheist who draws conclusions consistently even though I may disagree with them.

No, and this is where you are going wrong. It is not the probability of existence, as this is meaningless. It is the probability GIVEN the evidence we have.

So to compare Gods vs alien life:

For both we have stories of people claiming interacting with them. We have numerous books full of claims. We have peoples testimonies.

However for alien life, we have at least one example of life existing. So we know it can exist. With God we don't even have that.
For sentient life, we only know of one method that produces it - evolution. This process is far from certain to produce sentient life on a planet that has life.
If we had a God sitting here that we could measure, study and understand then, the probability of finding another would start to increase.


This is incredibly basic stuff. Lets take it back to underwater life.
Claim 1: There is an undiscovered type of plant deep under the sea that is undiscovered.
Claim 2: There are mermaids under the sea.

Which do you think has a higher probability of existing, given what we know about life? They aren't the same. (You'll note that there are far more testimonies about mermaids than there are this plant)
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