Problems with Christian Church

[*Deidre*]

I have a few questions regarding your perspectives on the church and Christianity..

**What are the big problems/issues you see in the Christian church today?

**Is your perspective of the former question from the inside (ie, your background was in church) or that of an outsider looking in? What took you away from church, if your background was church?

**What do you think about the person Jesus Christ? Is he real, historical person? Faked?

**What is the point or purpose in your life? What do you live for?

I'm especially interested in your responses to the first question!!

1) Not only today, but always...Christianity as is the case with all religions, are man made creations designed to control people, and their lives. Also, if we look at Christianity today, many Christians behave in very bigoted horrible ways to people who don't follow their beliefs. I've always said that it won't be atheists who 'destroy' Christianity, it will be the Christians themselves.

2) I was once a Christian, and so it's from the inside looking out. 

3) I think Jesus may have existed, but at best...the Gnostics have a more accurate portrayal of him, if I were to think about him spiritually. But, most likely, if he existed, he was a historical figure. I no longer believe the contrived NT story about his life.

4) The purpose of life is to not worry about the purpose of your life, but to always be seeking to help others, and learn to love yourself. Both can be incredibly hard things to do, I've found.

[Minimalist]

As usual, H. L. Mencken said it best:

The trouble with Communism is the Communists, just as the trouble with Christianity is the Christians.'

[Redbeard The Pink]

I have a few questions regarding your perspectives on the church and Christianity..

**What are the big problems/issues you see in the Christian church today?

**Is your perspective of the former question from the inside (ie, your background was in church) or that of an outsider looking in? What took you away from church, if your background was church?

**What do you think about the person Jesus Christ? Is he real, historical person? Faked?

**What is the point or purpose in your life? What do you live for?

I'm especially interested in your responses to the first question!!

1) I think my main beef is the indoctrination of young children into a belief system that scoffs at logic and critical thinking and encourages people to accept claims on faith and be universally suspicious of real-world evidence. Once you neuter a kid's reasoning skills like that, you really don't know what kind of fucked up adult you're going to end up with, or how long it could take to reverse that process (assuming that it ever gets reversed at all). There's also the backward morality that fights equality and scientific progress at every turn, not to mention the fact that churches don't pay taxes even though they use public services I pay for.

Oh, and don't even get me started on what they've done to music and film.

2) I was raised in the church. I fell out of regular church attendance some years ago because I just didn't feel like I needed it in order to remain pious. Some years later my critical thinking skills finally turned on my faith (and I finally let them), and that's when it all came crashing down. I used to use the full force of my intellect on mental gymnastics to justify my spiritual beliefs, so now that my beliefs are mainly rooted in evidence my religious arguments feel like they're on permanent easy mode. Atheism is far more defensible, which to me is a good indicator of whether a position has any merit.

3) Jesus of Nazareth, as written in the Bible, most certainly did not exist. There is some debate (even among the atheists on this forum) as to whether the character is based on one historical person, several historical people, or a pre-existing fictional character. I lean toward that last one, but I also don't think there's enough evidence to provide a definite answer to that question. Even if he was based on one historical person (as mainstream scholars claim), though, he probably didn't grow up in Nazareth, and he most certainly did not have supernatural powers of any kind, especially not the ability to rise from the dead.

4) It really depends on the day. Over all, I'd say my goal is to minimize suffering in myself and others while maximizing enjoyment of life in myself and others. I do this in various ways, and I don't always do a great job, but my life is far from empty and meaningless.

[The Valkyrie]

I have a few questions regarding your perspectives on the church and Christianity..

**What are the big problems/issues you see in the Christian church today?

**Is your perspective of the former question from the inside (ie, your background was in church) or that of an outsider looking in? What took you away from church, if your background was church?

**What do you think about the person Jesus Christ? Is he real, historical person? Faked?

**What is the point or purpose in your life? What do you live for?

I'm especially interested in your responses to the first question!!

1.  In many cases unwavering dogma which refuses to change even when given evidence to the contrary.  For example I've encountered many theists who have stated that they will never change their minds even if they are proven incorrect and there's no doubt that they're wrong.

2.  He may have existed in the form of an itinerant, wandering rabbi who was killed for shaking up the status quo and the stories grew up around him.  He may also have been an amalgam of several figures.  I haven't made up my mind which of those I believe.

3.  Biologically my purpose is to reproduce and make more little people.  My own, self given, purpose is to live my life as they best person I can be and to help others when I can.

[Alex K]

The Jesus Christ did not exist. There may have existed a person, maybe even by that name, whose life formed the nucleus of the stories we read today. But even then there is no justification to say that the Christ of the bible is historical - too many critical aspects are probably missing, such as the magic stuff.

[jiffy]

Great replies thus far! One thing that has surprised me is several are bothered by the tax-exempt status of churches. Would you suggest eliminating tax exemption completely, for all "religious" reasons? Perhaps it only remains for charity organizations only?

@Jenny A - what drove you away from Christianity?

@Redbeard - Are you referring to contemporary music? It seems like music coming out of several centuries ago was positively influenced (I'm thinking of Bach, Handel, Haydn, etc.)

[robvalue]

I'd say yes. If an organisation is taking people's money, it is a business. The fact that they are selling an imaginary product is irrelevant. If they want tax exempt status for being a charity, like they kind of imply that they are anyway, they should apply for it like anyone else.

Oh yes, and they don't even have to show their books to anyone. That's revolting also.

Of course, this is all religions, not just Christianity. It's also stupid because the government (in America anyway, which I'm not in ) is kind of in the business of saying what is and isn't a "proper religion" before granting such status.

[T.J.]

I'd add on to the above by saying that if they really want to affect 'government policy' then they should have to pay taxes like everyone else.

[Jenny A]

Great replies thus far! One thing that has surprised me is several are bothered by the tax-exempt status of churches. Would you suggest eliminating tax exemption completely, for all "religious" reasons? Perhaps it only remains for charity organizations only?

If churches could qualify, or even create a sub corp that would qualify as a charitable institution, the church or the sub corp should be tax exempt.

@Jenny A - what drove you away from Christianity?

Sitting in church at about age five wondering how adults could believe this stuff.  The sermon concerned the fall.  And it reminded me of fairy tales. I knew the difference between fact and fiction, and I learned that difference from my parents, yet my parents believed what sounded like fiction.  I was confused.  I waited and watched and became convinced that many people will believe fiction is fact if only they are told so often enough by people they like or admire.  I don't base my beliefs on statements without evidence.

Then I noticed in my early teens that Jesus and god valued faith without evidence over faith with evidence.  That was the final straw, the ultimate snake rattle of the fraudulent.

[Minimalist]

Would you suggest eliminating tax exemption completely, for all "religious" reasons?

Yes.