the hammer of homosexuality

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Provide writings of Jesus, and I'll say he wrote something.  Pretty simple really.  He didn't write the bible, that much is clear.

So basically you won't know for sure if the bible is true or not until you die.  Which mean until then it's worth no more than any other book such as the Quran, Dianetics, or the Mormon Bible.  That's not a book inspired by god.  If god wanted people to live by certain rules he'd have been a lot more fucking clear.

http://youtu.be/nNl-lD10BZw

I know admiral, their always was some secret clause or reason an atheist can never admit when they are wrong even if provide exactly what they ask for.
Here goes anyway,

6 They were saying this to trick Jesus. They wanted to catch him saying something wrong so that they could have a charge against him. But Jesus stooped down and started writing on the ground with his finger. 7 The Jewish leaders continued to ask him their question. So he stood up and said, “Anyone here who has never sinned should throw the first stone at her.” 8 Then Jesus stooped down again and wrote on the ground.

Since Jesus was supposed to have been sinless it was his obligation to have started stoning the woman.  But he had a couple of problems.  First, his mother was an adulteress so she should have been stoned years ago.  Second, he had been going around flapping his jaws about how he was the son of God.  So the woman had probably been worshiping him.  Therefore he couldn't condemn her outright since he had been claiming that his daddy was God himself.  He wimped out and the crowd let him get away with it.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Well I've never been a sock for someone before, but I really could see no other possible reaction to that response but to point and laugh, so if that makes me a likely candidate for being Dyre's sock, then I guess I'll wear that fitted shoe.

Seriously, Drich, I wish you could understand how crazy you sound when you start talking like that.

[Qwest]

I would have absolutely no issue in saying Homosexuality is biological nor would I have any issue saying it is psychological or a mixure of both, (Just not genetic) because without a doubt their is a driving force behind it. One that a person could get lost in.

But, again. How is that different than any other sin?

Your whole argument whether you know it or not is prefaced on Homosexuality being the unforgivable sin. It's not, get over yourselves. It is a sexual sin, just like any other sexual sin/hetrosexual. That said If their was a sin scale sexual sin ranks just under unforgivable, so it is still pretty serious, but it is a sub set of sinful things WE ALL Deal with every day! The only difference is forgiveness can be found for those willing to identify and admit their sin.

That what atonement and repentance is. We do not have to over come our sin/lead sinless lives in order to find the save Grace Christ died to provide. However we must be willing to honestly identify sin in our lives and turn our hearts from it. Not want to sin. Hate our sin. That is why we must not legitimize or try and make excuses for our sin/because we will never turn from it.

Even Paul Himself in Romans 7 says he can not ever stop sinning. yet he is still saved because he identifies the sin in his life and turns his heart from it. Which can not happen if we try and justify sin under the title of 'natural behavior.' Natural does not equal righteous behavior. Righteousness is what we need for eternal life, and we can only get that through atonement because we are all guilty of sin

I never beat my child, aside from taking things away from her, as you said. She graduated number 6 in her class in high school, is a JR in college and is one of the managers of a clothing store. Not quite a killer there. Oh, FYI, she is usually the defensive driver when they go out because she refuses to go out without one

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I'm genuinely amazed that they keep trying so hard to deny that it is natural behavior, and instead say it's trying to "justify sinful behavior".

What are the bonobos doing, sinning? We see homosexual behavior in every social species we observe. We are a social species. We have seen in fMRI studies that human brains react to the chemistry of the gender to which they claim to choose actively, showing that what's going on is much deeper than some kind of "decision to sin". When the Christians then say that it's akin to murder "or any other sin" (really?!), and that what these people must hate is their own endocrine systems, essentially, all I can do is point and laugh at what is clearly a form of willful ignorance.

I point and laugh because you say we "justify" our own sins; yet most of the researchers who have done these studies on homosexuals are not, themselves, homosexuals. They (and I) have no reason to justify this as natural if it is not, in fact, natural. Which, then, is the more likely conclusion-- that we're inventing a natural explanation for no reason, or that it really is what research continues to show? Confirming or denying the anecdotal evidence given about human sexuality is part of what science does.

The only thing being justified here is the bigotry of Bronze Age tribal sheepherder-warrior societies, who needed to breed as many young fighters as possible in order to survive against their competition. Had they not attached divine authority to it, you'd be laughing at their ideas about homosexuals the way we laugh at their ideas about menstrual blood and the notion of women-as-property. Necessary for that time and place, maybe (though I also contest that), but ridiculous in the light of knowledge that we have that they did not.

So in response to your notion that it is homosexuals, rather than Christians, who are the ones justifying their beliefs, I say:

[robvalue]

No one has to justify being a homosexual to anybody. It's simply a fact, and it doesn't hurt anyone, except the feelings of bigots.

Those people that persist with the idea that it's a choice are parading their ignorance around for all to see. They are also saying they are actually either gay or bisexual themselves, since they make a conscious choice "not to be attracted" to men. Otherwise known as denial.

I don't fucking care, even if it was a choice. People make all sorts of choices all the time, what's the issue? I don't care if two straight men decide to get married. That's their legal right.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

No one has to justify being a homosexual to anybody. It's simply a fact, and it doesn't hurt anyone, except the feelings of bigots.

Those people that persist with the idea that it's a choice are parading their ignorance around for all to see. They are also saying they are actually either gay or bisexual themselves, since they make a conscious choice "not to be attracted" to men. Otherwise known as denial.

I don't fucking care, even if it was a choice. People make all sorts of choices all the time, what's the issue? I don't care if two straight men decide to get married. That's their legal right.

That's just it, Rob. It doesn't matter if it is a choice, so there's no reason to have to "justify" anything. It's a matter of scientific curiousity, to me, to know which it is, and I think the matter is beginning to look fairly settled on the side of not-a-choice.

The only people who have something to justify are the ones who claim it must be a choice (because how else could it be a sin?), and who claim that their particular holy book is a profound insight into human nature, rather than the bigotries of the Bronze Age.

[robvalue]

Right! We're not forcing bible thumpers to marry people of the same sex, or to have intercourse with them. If they don't want to, that's absolutely fine. They needn't justify it to anyone, it's their choice. But the problem comes when they expect other people who don't share any of their beliefs to live by the same arbitrary rules.

No! Fuck off. You wouldn't live by my arbitrary religion if I made one up, nor would you live by Muslim rules. So why should non Christians live by Christian rules? If they are only concerned about the fate of our eternal souls, then they can be concerned all they like on their own time without having to interfere. They can't think God is capable of doing his job if he needs the help of pissant thugs all the time.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Right! We're not forcing bible thumpers to marry people of the same sex, or to have intercourse with them. If they don't want to, that's absolutely fine. They needn't justify it to anyone, it's their choice. But the problem comes when they expect other people who don't share any of their beliefs to live by the same arbitrary rules.

No! Fuck off. You wouldn't live by my arbitrary religion if I made one up, nor would you live by Muslim rules. So why should non Christians live by Christian rules? If they are only concerned about the fate of our eternal souls, then they can be concerned all they like on their own time without having to interfere. They can't think God is capable of doing his job if he needs the help of pissant thugs all the time.

On a related note, "Pissant Thugs" may be the name of my next band.

[Mermaid]

Oh my God, he's still talking.

[robvalue]

Sorry about that! I'll shut up now. I get passionate about issues like this.