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Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 3:36 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 3:38 am by miaharun.)
(October 26, 2015 at 2:57 am)robvalue Wrote: If you're reborn as a new life form, with no memory or any connection at all to the previous life you were, in what way are you still "you"? At most it seems like you'd keep the same reference number in an array. But everything else is totally different and unrelated.
I don't know why you'd want to believe that "gonna get raped" follows one person to another basically entirely new person with the same serial number. Luckily there is no evidence for this being the case, I don't even understand how it's supposed to work. The universe nudges a potential rapist? "Go on, she was a real bad person in her last life. Rape her." Unless there is some weird force actually influencing people's behaviour, then the concept makes no sense.
And then... because this guy was influenced to rape by this karma force, he should be held less responsible for doing it because he was under duress. Does karma make this allowance? For this karma to work, people would have to spend a lot of time under duress to mete out this weird form of justice. So how could their life then be judged fairly at the end, to give them a karma score? Karma ends up judging itself.
It is a kind of force which goes from life to life, cause and effect. We are just a result of many many previous causes put together. If one has done a bad karma in a previous lifetime, that result can come up in the present life.
Although it is an entirely new person that person carries the potential, force or result, what ever you call it within him or her. There is plenty of evidence for rebirth. Example where small children describe their past lives even their parents and sometimes their murderer.
Nobody nudges a potential rapist. Example a child who has had a unhappy, violent childhood (then again due to bad karma), grows up to be a violent, unhappy man who will kill or rape another person whom he gets the opportunity. The victim of course suffers like this due to his/her previous misdeeds.
Karma does not make allowances. It is cause and effect. You do a misdeed it will come back to you in this life or in another lifetime. There is no "judgement". Merely an action and the then the result of the action.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 3:43 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 3:46 am by robvalue.)
I don't take past life regression very seriously, I think it's mostly fantasy and suggestion. I'm not aware of any rigorous studies on the subject. If there are any, I'd be interested to know.
You make a lot of claims about cause and effect, but where is the evidence for any of it? Isn't it just post hoc rationalization of events? How can you possibly determine what caused what, and how? It seems to amount to just saying that people must have done something to deserve what they get.
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 3:44 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 3:52 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You aren't describing cause and effect, stop, lol. Let karma be karma...and let cause and effect be cause and effect. I'm sure you're capable. Would you be willing to explain to that girl from your previous example...that she was somehow responsible for her rape. Could you do that? Face to face, eye to eye - "ultimately, it's your own fault"...............?
I couldn't. I couldn't do it even if I believed it were true. I couldn't even manufacture the courage to fit that conviction.
Conversely, would you be willing to tell that girl that forgiveness for raping her is not solely under her authority? That someone, or something else decides that, not her? She has no say?
Fuck, how many times do we plan on raping the poor girls body and soul?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 4:01 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 4:02 am by robvalue.)
I'll go further: I think past life regression is entirely fantasy and suggestion. I'm sure they are plenty of anecdotes, but they still only amount to the argument from ignorance. We don't know how the information got into the person's brain, even if there is anything genuinely unexplainable in there.
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Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 4:30 am
@ Rhythm and robvalue
With regards to past lives and regression, please do type in the following and listen to one of the clips. You will find it interesting and convincing. This is just one link and a dependable one.
ajahn brahm on rebirth and past lives.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 4:45 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 4:53 am by robvalue.)
OK...
He's just doing exactly what I said, giving anecdotes and using the argument from ignorance. Well, he's not even using the argument, he's skipping over that bit right to announcing the conclusion. The argument from ignorance would come if I questioned him no doubt. "What else could it be?"
If you think this is a valid argument, please read on my website here why it isn't.
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 5:08 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 5:10 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Whether or not we live past lives does little to convince me of the efficacy or justice of karma. As far as past lives go, on their own...I can only quote a wise person from page 1 of this thread.
Quote:I find that ridiculous and how gullible people can be.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 5:10 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 5:14 am by miaharun.)
@ robvalue. Your link makes sense do doubt. In terms of logic and reason. However it's targeted towards the existence of God. No one in this forum has yet given me a proper reason for differences as to why you robvalue is intelligent , educated and typing on this forum. And why are there people in Somalia suffering , hunger, poverty ,uneducated ..some might not know the English language. What right do human beings have to be in different situations. Do you think it's fair ? Or are you saying its chance.
(October 26, 2015 at 5:08 am)Rhythm Wrote: Whether or not we live past lives does little to convince me of the efficacy or justice of karma. As far as past lives go, on their own...I can only quote a wise person from page 1 of this thread.
Quote:I find that ridiculous and how gullible people can be.
Yes indeed I said that. Good sir atleast I'm responsible for my actions. I don't have a safe feeling that if I do something wrong still I will be alright.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Gautama Buddha
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 5:17 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 5:30 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The guy in Somalia may not have internet access..........? How fucking mysterious is that? You're actually here, pretending that you both require and have not been provided with a "proper reason" as to that deep unresolved mystery of the universe...this is what karma purportedly explains?
Unimpressive. Poverty as punishment, wealth as reward - hear it from the christers too. I'm baffled as to why you find them so difficult to understand, you guys are in lock step. What's the takeaway from all of this? If you do bad things karma will turn you into a poor Somali girl and then rape you? GL with that shit.
Quote:Good sir atleast I'm responsible for my actions. I don't have a safe feeling that if I do something wrong still I will be alright.
This, right here, meh. Do you think that makes you different from christians, or atheists? It doesn't, I can assure you. But so what, why bicker over what brings another a safe feeling when you have your own blanket as well? Karma is your safe feeling. That, for example..if you do it all right, wrong won't happen to you. I don't want to be there for the day you realize this isn't so. GL with that, as well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Sin & Forgiveness
October 26, 2015 at 5:19 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2015 at 5:26 am by robvalue.)
You are assuming there must be an ultimate reason why things are the way they are. That's unfounded. Where did god come from all of a sudden?
What is "fair" is entirely a human value judgement. Again, you seem uncomfortable with reality so are trying to weave a story so that things balance, based on no evidence at all. My opinion on what is and isn't fair has no bearing on reality or causation.
As it happens, no, life is not fair at all. Life is a bitch and it breaks my heart that there is so much suffering in the world. Does pretending those people somehow deserve it really make you feel better?
Thank you for taking the time to read my article  I'm just using logic here, I'm not having a go at you over your beliefs.
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