Sin & Forgiveness

[The Grand Nudger]

It's a big hat and a nice house, be a shame if they went to waste.

[miaharun]

He or she is unaware of what they have brought. Is that blaming the victim ? I don't think so. I don't have the right to blame the victim and I most certainly don't need to.

From Wikipedia - Karma
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.

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It's a big hat and a nice house, be a shame if they went to waste.

Does he govern the Christians or what is his purpose ? The new pope seems to be a people's person than the previous pope.

[robvalue]

The Pope is someone who thinks/pretends he can talk to God. So not very different to many other Christians. I have no idea what the point of him is. He is really just a spin doctor, trying make out like the Catholic Church is progressing while trying to cling to inflexible doctrine.

No problem, thanks for the discussion

[Aoi Magi]

The purpose of pope is
- Convince adults that it's OK to have imaginary friends, citing himself as an example when needed
- Collecting and transfer of monetary resources from our reality to the realm of said imaginary friend
- Engaging in the novel endeavour of trying to impregnate young boys

[vorlon13]

Karma and schadenfreude, 2 great things that go great together . . .

[miaharun]

Karma and schadenfreude, 2 great things that go great together . . .

Delight in misfortunes of others, that's bad karma. Please enlighten me as to how they connect.

[Drich]

Hi All, I just want to shoot this question. In Christianity or any God fearing religion your forgiven for your sins. How can that be justified with ones conscious. Let alone a Devine entity. Say for instance someone commits a murder for any reason. How can anything forgive you for that under any circumstances. People will always take the easy way out or do the wrong thing just because there is the comfort of forgiveness. I am a practicing Buddhist and I believe in Karma. There should not be any escape from that. Most of my friends who believe in God has told me they have been forgiven for the sins that they have done. I find that ridiculous and how gullible people can be.  Some sins go to the very extreme. Not things like lying, stealing etc.

What are your thoughts.

From what you've written here it would seem that your understanding of sin, is a wrong commited from one person against another. If sin were social law your observation would have merrit.

However Sin, is not about breaking moral social law. All sin is against God. The acts of sin unlike moral social law, are not defined by a given act. Because when defining 'sin' we do not look to 'moral value' in the act itself. For example lying or killing another person has no moral value (good or bad) in of itself. Morality is not defined by an act (the other side of the coin Giving to the poor/saving a life also has no moral value in of itself.) What ascribes moral value is what God says about a given act like murder. Meaning it is only because God said it is wrong to murder, that makes murder wrong. Therefore to murder is to break God's commandment, the breaking of this command is sin. So for God to forgive this transgression through atonement and repentance, means God will not punish you for this sin. However this does not mean your debt to that person, yourself or soceity has been cleared.

Forgiveness of Sin only puts the soul 'square' with God.

[robvalue]

Delight in misfortune of others...

That's kablamo!

http://youtu.be/qn7duAZjP8w

[miaharun]

From what you've written here it would seem that your understanding of sin, is a wrong commited from one person against another. If sin were social law your observation would have merrit.

However Sin, is not about breaking moral social law. All sin is against God. The acts of sin unlike moral social law, are not defined by a given act. Because when defining 'sin' we do not look to 'moral value' in the act itself. For example lying or killing another person has no moral value (good or bad) in of itself. Morality is not defined by an act (the other side of the coin Giving to the poor/saving a life also has no moral value in of itself.) What ascribes moral value is what God says about a given act like murder. Meaning it is only because God said it is wrong to murder, that makes murder wrong. Therefore to murder is to break God's commandment, the breaking of this command is sin. So for God to forgive this transgression through atonement and repentance, means God will not punish you for this sin. However this does not mean your debt to that person, yourself or soceity has been cleared.

Forgiveness of Sin only puts the soul 'square' with God.

Hi Drich , what I mean by sin is not one person to another. You can sin with your actions, your mouth and your mind. Even if one thinks "Oh I wish she would not pass her exams" I consider that as a sin, bad deed or misdeed. I only took murder as an example. Something out of gods context would still be a sin right. Not just things like murder which he mentions in the bible. Example I consider slaughtering animals as a sin.

So even if God forgives in the afterlife or where ever it may be people are still feeling safe because of this act. You say that debt to that person/actions , himself/herself and society is not cleared. However that's not the case , people are very happy that they have been forgiven and merely cares of those debts in this present life. That's what's bothering me like a splinter in my eye.

One man is happily married. He sees another attractive woman and commits adultery without his wife knowing. His guilt works up , his conscience might not be clear. However he asks for forgiveness or maybe confess. I don't know who or what tells him that he is forgiven but sadly that's the case most of the time. With that safe thought in mind he goes along like nothing happens. They say God gives them strength. I think this is what they are taking about. I say this because I know people who have committed a lot of bad deeds and whenever I ask them the answer is "I have been forgiven " , after that I'm being asked to take Jesus in my heart so that all my sins will get washed away "just like that " . Most of the people who talks like this are born again Christians. They were following other religions before including Roman Catholic

[Drich]

Hi Drich ,

what I mean by sin is not one person to another. You can sin with your actions, your mouth and your mind.only took murder as an example. Something out of gods context would still be a sin right. Not just things like murder which he Even if one thinks "Oh I wish she would not pass her exams" I consider that as a sin, bad deed or misdeed. I mentions in the bible. Example I consider slaughtering animals as a sin.

Even so the examples you list are ALL of 'Immoral acts commited against someone' even your example of wishing ill. That means your defination of sin is morality based. meaning you believe that certain acts have a good value and certain acts have a bad value.

With God all your examples: killing, sex with another woman, wishing someone's failure, even killing animals, these acts, all of them. have no 'moral' value before God on their own. What makes them good or bad is what God has to say about them. Therefore to violate what he says/His law is a sin to and against Him.

That is what the word sin means in english. To literally break devine law. That means Sin is only sin to God. You in your examples are defining the term sin to mean the same as morality. When in fact sin and morality have nothing to do with one another except on occasion when the words sin and immoral can be used to describe the same act.

So again, To forgive sin only means one does not owe a debt to God. It however does not release one from any soceitial/moral obligations.

So even if God forgives in the afterlife or where ever it may be people are still feeling safe because of this act. You say that debt to that person/actions , himself/herself and society is not cleared. However that's not the case , people are very happy that they have been forgiven and merely cares of those debts in this present life. That's what's bothering me like a splinter in my eye.

So in your estimation one who commits murder and is sentenced to life in a max security prison can find happiness with the remainder of his life being caged in a tiny room 23 hours a day?

Again forgiveness of sin only clears one's personal debt to God not to what is owed to society.

One man is happily married. He sees another attractive woman and commits adultery without his wife knowing. His guilt works up , his conscience might not be clear. However he asks for forgiveness or maybe confess. I don't know who or what tells him that he is forgiven but sadly that's the case most of the time. With that safe thought in mind he goes along like nothing happens.

That may be the case where you come from but here, when a prominent man of the faith is caught of confesses adultery, and even if he does repent, society and even his family will seek their pound of flesh. Google josh duggar for an example of this. This is a perfect example of a man who COULD be square with God and still owes society and family great debt.

They say God gives them strength. I think this is what they are taking about. I say this because I know people who have committed a lot of bad deeds and whenever I ask them the answer is "I have been forgiven " , after that I'm being asked to take Jesus in my heart so that all my sins will get washed away "just like that " . Most of the people who talks like this are born again Christians. They were following other religions before including Roman Catholic  

Josh Duggar claims to be a 'born again' and I can promise you he is not happy with his life right now, even though he could be forgiven of his sin. That said I can't say he won't ever be able to forgive himself, but at the same time that personal and family forgiveness may not come for years and years.

So again, Sin is not a moral transgression. meaning you do not get to define what a sin is or is not (Example: your take on wishing someone fail an exam or killing animals and calling that a sin, those are moral transgressions not sin.) Sin is the breaking of divine law. To forgive a sin can only be done by God. If said sin also happens to coincide with moral societal law, then forgiveness of sin from God does not release one from any societal debt.

Can one find happiness from being forgiven of sin? absolutely If the reality of said sin does not have that person dealing with societal consequences, or dealing with the consequences of the sin itself.