Muslims

[dyresand]

This is what we do we take the koran and we don't burn it but heavily edit it hire a guy that
says he is the second coming of you know.. um Muhahmmed and have him deliver the NT version of the koran.

[Mystic]

Thank you for your honesty and insight, MK. For the record, I don't think good Muslim folks need to ditch their religion. I just think Islam needs some kind of reform... to where the laws are more clear so that we don't have psychos interpreting the Quran in the most literal and extreme way possible.

Thank you for your kind words. 

I think we need to start listening and understanding our religion better through a grieving sad loving heart. The problem is Quran is not solely about appealing to the intellect, but the soul/heart as well.

And we are failing in two fronts, the heart/soul aspect, as well as the intellectual aspect. We fail to appreciate both.

Jacob use to cry for Joseph so much, it was his routine in life. The problem is people's hearts are hard to listening to Quran. The Quran emphasized on the love the Prophet Jacob had to Prophet Joseph in a Surah about their story, then emphasized "And you do not ask them a wage but that it is a remembrance to the worlds".  

And to emphasize on that grief of Jacob being due to a high intense knowledge, it was said he was taught a knowledge that most people do not know.

The wage is "Say no wage do I ask for it except the love of my near relatives"
 (42:23)
And it's been described to be the path to God in another verse (25:57).

One of the most important things in any book is to understand it's tone. Quran is recited by many people as if it's revealed in some sort tone that's not. The Quran according to Shiite hadiths attributed to the Imams, is that the Quran has been revealed in a sad tone.

We don't recognize the tears of Jacob. We don't cry and grief for his chosen ones as he does. But had we that love that is a remembrance towards God and his names/light/face and path, we would not oppress a single human.


"say: whatever wage I have asked you, then it is for yourselves"

John, Joseph, Jesus, these chosen ones could of lead humanity to happiness long time ago. They could of lead people to justice and out of ignorance and oppression. The world could of happily been waiting for the final Messenger, and the final successor of that Messenger with open arms.

All Prophets were sent not so humans oppress in the name of the Prophets or their Lord [the Exalted] but rather that humans conduct themselves with justice.

The Quran came showing a sad history where God has been lending a hand and in his words, causing nothing but grief to God expressed in his words:

"O (intense) grief over my servants, there comes naught a Messenger but regarding him they would mock"

When you tell people God has intense grief over what humanity has faced, it seems counter intuitive, that's because Satan himself distorts our view of God. God doesn't change state to state, but just he is pleased when we do good acts, he is grieved intensely when we lose our souls, and this not describing changing to an emotional state but rather manifesting the one essence that doesn't change.

If we don't cry over the oppression and sad state of the world, it's because we have hard hearts. And if we don't care about the best of humans and chosen ones, and the oppression they faced, we won't care about those lesser to them. We might give it a passing thought.

God knows how to bring justice, and yes the answer is still and has always been love, but not just any love, love in overdrive.

When you love, it teaches you. It teaches you how to love in a better way over time.

[Thumpalumpacus]

tl/dr

[Thumpalumpacus]

Just thought it good material the next time we're told we shouldn't lump all muslims in the same bracket, or told we shouldn't criticize Islam for some bullshit PC reasoning, or some do-gooder moral highground humping tosh about how all muslims aren't terrorists. 

First, no one is telling you to not criticize Islam that you should actually listen to. Secondly, if you lump 1.7 billion people together into one bracket, you're an idiot. Thirdly, not all Muslims are terrorists. If you need to be told that, you're stupider than you seem.

And I'm no do-gooder, I'm an asshole, so fuck off.

[KUSA]

I want to accept people. I support the refugees coming to the US. But it's scary when I think of how many of them would make up any of these percentages.

I don't mind refugees coming to the US but I do mind Muslim refugees coming here. Even if they are "peaceful" Muslims, they will spread their religion and we all know what that leads to.

Islam should be treated like a disease.

[Cato]

Yes but key word "Can".

Religion is not the same as action.
Action is choice.

We should not group those who choose a religion as bad, under the assumption they will make the choice to act on it.

Nor should you assume that religion is a choice when it has been forced on you from your earliest memory. Whether Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et al, most adherents have been indoctrinated from a very young age.

Addressing the survey statistics in the OP...

If the questions were changed so that Evangelical Christians were asked similar questions unmasking their indoctrination relative to evolution I think we would see similar results. My point is that we shouldn't be so alarmed about the particular questions, but recognize the results as demonstration of what happens when someone's exposure to information is insulated.

[robvalue]

It seems Islam won't allow itself to be watered down to basically nothing like Christianity has been. It contains these dangerous elements that stand fast, and in significant numbers even among "moderates".

Antidotes:

1) Education
2) Critical thinking
3) Oppose all attempts in secular countries to set up religious laws above secular ones, even in small areas
4) Stop pretending religion isn't causing problems

[Bob Kelso]

Stop letting these cunts use our own freedoms against us. Quit relenting to the PC brigade who tell us we should show respect for this fucked up backward religion, and stop worrying about offending these muslims who insist they're not the majority. 

Fuck them and fuck their religion.

[Homeless Nutter]

Here's the problem with islam, the way I see it - it has actual totalitarian control over large populations, which differentiates it from most other religions. And religious zealots in charge of theocracies - as much, as we may perceive them as savages - have learned some history.

They know what happened to christianity, when western churches gave up most of their political powers and allowed for secularization of western society. They will do anything to hold on to power and from their perspective, that means not allowing for any kind of reformation.

Moderate muslims don't seem to have much say in their own countries and I doubt that will change any time soon, or perhaps ever, since executing political opponents in a totalitarian theocracy is easier than taking a sh*t.

[robvalue]

I hadn't thought about that! Good point. Islam learns from Christianty's "mistake".