Muslims

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Like I said earlier, when I say "good Muslim" I just mean a good person to our 21st century standards. This does not need to be explained or analyzed. Someone who doesn't go around killing people and forcing others to believe what they believe... or someone who supports either of those acts.

They may be a distinct minority and, when they try to speak out they can end up dead very quickly ( See Bangladesh bloggers.)

Why don't you think people can change though? That was centuries ago.

Do you think for a moment I would trust scumbags like Huckabee and Carson?  Pat Robertson?  Billy Graham and his pissant son?  No.  Given a chance to exert political power these fuckers would be the American Taliban.

When you look for "people" to change it isn't the shepherd who will do the changing.  They always want to be in charge.  No.  The sheep need to change.  Actually the sheep need to say "go fuck yourself, Huckabee, we don't care about your fucking fairy tales.

The handful of muslims who have reached that point are either a) in the west or b) in hiding in their own countries.



Atheist Bloggers Bangladesh

Good points but the conflict arises when there are opposing viewpoints.  If all 7 billion+ people were of the same religious sect there would be very little discord or crime.  It would be like living in a world full of pod people but things overall would be very peaceful.  When someone breaks the rules he would be dealt with in an expeditious manner and harmony would be quickly restored.  A person would only have problems if he didn't obey and wanted to do his own things.

[Regina]

From what I can see, ISIS is the real enemy and the one we should be focusing on. Freezing out the entire Muslim population because of their actions will do nothing except drive more people to their cause - more bodies for them to brainwash further into insanity and then throw at us.
Religion is indeed like a cancer and it has afflicted this species for far, far too long. But ISIS is currently on a different level to most of the rest.

What's needed is to educate a lot of people (mostly but not exclusively Muslims) that ISIS hate you whatever you are. Like I said earlier, a lot of people fall for this narrative of groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and The Taliban being "offended" by "Islamophobia" and that their main goal is to protect Muslims. This is absolute bollocks. If these people were so pro-Muslim, there wouldn't be terrorist attacks almost daily in the Muslim-majority Middle East. The truth is that these are groups who are simply on a power trip and will indiscriminately slaughter anyone (even Muslims) who get in their way.

People need to learn this, the fight against this "Islamic terror" is absolutely everyone's fight. It's one Muslims should be at the forefront of, if so many of them weren't misled into thinking the terrorist groups act in their favour.

[Minimalist]

If all 7 billion+ people were of the same religious sect there would be very little discord or crime.

Saudi Arabia chops off far more heads than ISIS for various crimes and we don't seem to care.  Such is the difference that oil makes to morality.

[GrandizerII]

I agree completely. It's not a good situation for us (and obviously not for them). But I still think taking them in would be the right thing to do, even if it ends up hurting us somehow. It's a sacrifice and a risk, but it's the right thing I think.

I am sure you mean well but answer me this. If one of them killed a loved one of yours would you still think it was the right thing to do?

One of them? So innocent people are bunched in the same category as terrorists is what it seems like you're saying.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If all 7 billion+ people were of the same religious sect there would be very little discord or crime.

Saudi Arabia chops off far more heads than ISIS for various crimes and we don't seem to care.  Such is the difference that oil makes to morality.

Not every muslim in Saudi Arabia is in the same sect.  Overall there is very little real crime in Saudi Arabia.  A lot of the incidents involve breaking religious rules.  

Christians generally want Jesus to return.  Living under Jesus would be just like living under ISIS.

[ignoramus]

If all 7 billion+ people were of the same religious sect there would be very little discord or crime.

Saudi Arabia chops off far more heads than ISIS for various crimes and we don't seem to care.  Such is the difference that oil makes to morality.

Yes, but they're not chopping off western heads!
It's not our country, we should respect that.
Like the 2 Aussies who got the death sentence in Indonesia.
We are outraged! Why?

If stoning to death is legal in some countries, and they come here and stone someone to death, should we say:
Oh that's OK, carry on. I found Australia very hypocritical on that issue.
Did we speak up over the years when they executed thousands of their own for drug related offences? No.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Saudi Arabia chops off far more heads than ISIS for various crimes and we don't seem to care.  Such is the difference that oil makes to morality.

Yes, but they're not chopping off western heads!
It's not our country, we should respect that.
Like the 2 Aussies who got the death sentence in Indonesia.
We are outraged! Why?

If stoning to death is legal in some countries, and they come here and stone someone to death, should we say:
Oh that's OK, carry on. I found Australia very hypocritical on that issue.
Did we speak up over the years when they executed thousands of their own for drug related offences? No.

Do you have any idea how many people America locks up and executes?

[ignoramus]

you mean jail/capital punishment?
I'd imagine a few.

[Napoléon]

First, no one is telling you to not criticize Islam that you should actually listen to. Secondly, if you lump 1.7 billion people together into one bracket, you're an idiot. Thirdly, not all Muslims are terrorists. If you need to be told that, you're stupider than you seem.

And I'm no do-gooder, I'm an asshole, so fuck off.

First, you're fucking dead wrong. How cute that you think you know what other people have said to me. I've been told numerous times, and been preached to numerous times, that Islam is a religion of peace, and that ISIS aren't Muslims, and that it's wrong to criticise Muslims. So do tell me more about how "no one is telling me not to criticise Islam". And your little qualifying addendum of "that you should listen to" is bollocks. Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to tell me who I should and should not listen to.

Second, no one is lumping 1.7 billion Muslims into one bracket and you're the fucking clown for suggesting so and moreover a disingenuous prick who clearly can't read the contents of the thread and instead just wants to mouth off to make himself feel intellectually superior.

Thirdly, see secondly.

Fourthly, you're another do-gooder cunt who doesn't actually read anything anyone says, but just likes to offer his so brilliantly original opinion of "don't lump everyone together" and "not all Muslims are terrorists" even though the OP and nobody in this entire fucking thread said so. You really are a dipshit sometimes.

[Thumpalumpacus]

That's what I'm saying, though. Christianity and Islam are not exactly the same, and won't react the same and have the same problems. The New Testament is not the same as the Koran, the same way that Jesus is not the same as Mohammad. Different religions, different cultures, different history, different ideologies, different traditions, and so and so on. I know you hate religion, but that does not mean all religions are the same. There's plenty of diversity, and not all religious people are going to act the same way, especially if they are from different religions.

Of course not all religions are the same. Do us both a favor and don't talk down to me, okay?

The fact is, the OT, which Protestants hold as part of their holy book, urges on violence at Koranic levels, and you and I both know that. You're closer to the truth when you talk about different cultures and traditions, though, because the tribal culture of that region is very steeped in the idea of revenge and grievance.

However, this nuance was absent in your post to which I replied. Your point was that the absence of a unified leadership is one reason Muslims are at each other's throats; and I'm telling you that not only is that not the best or only reason, I don't think in this case it is even a reasonable solution, because Muslims themselves wouldn't accept it.