Is America the greatest country

[Anomalocaris]

Vastly more legitimate, and less mean spirited, than really choosing to believe there is a hell to which people go to burn, for an eternity.

... which would be true if it were ever possible for belief or disbelief to be a choice.

It is always possible, indeed unavoidable, to chose what to believe.

[The Grand Nudger]

What I was asking Min is if he agreed with the comment wishing death on innocent people. Getting into an argument over semantics is just straying from the point.

"Innocent" people who negligently discharge firearms into toddlers, spouses, next door neighbors and themselves...... I'm willing to bet that Min probably would wish death on those people, lol.

I'd settle for them being put through a tumble in the sack with a rough man named Phil, personally. Which is what would happen if we called them on their bullshit and charged them with the crime they've committed.

[Catholic_Lady]

What I was asking Min is if he agreed with the comment wishing death on innocent people. Getting into an argument over semantics is just straying from the point.

"Innocent" people who negligently discharge firearms into toddlers, spouses, next door neighbors and themselves...... I'm willing to bet that Min probably would wish death on those people, lol.

I'd settle for them being put through a tumble in the sack with a rough man named Phil, personally.  Which is what would happen if we called them on their bullshit and charged them with the crime they've committed.

But Chuck wasn't talking only about people who have negligently discharged firearms into others. He was talking about all American people who own guns, in general, and that is what Min and I responded to. It is a small percentage of all people who own guns who have negligently gotten others killed, not all of them. And even if he was wishing death only on those who have been responsible for negligence, I still don't see how it's an appropriate sentiment to have. Especially if you're against the death penalty. 

It makes no sense to wish death on negligent gun owners who have discharged on people, and then to turn around and say you're against the death penalty for the most heinous of criminals. It makes even less sense to wish death on all American who own guns, which is what he did. 

Chuck's comment was that guns should not have a safety feature so that way they can go off and kill the owner, and that America would be a better place if all gun owners were shot and killed.


I don't care about guns one way or the other, but I do object to people talking about wanting a whole category of people to be killed. Having guns does not make someone a bad person. If they haven't done anything wrong, they are still innocent people. Being in the Air Force, we know a lot of fellow officers who own guns and like to go shooting. They are still innocent people. They are still good people who don't deserve to die. My husband's dad owns a few guns himself too. He doesn't use them for hunting animals, but he does like to go target shooting on occasion with his sons. He's a doctor who dedicates his life to helping people. He's an innocent man and not someone who any decent person should be wishing death upon, nor someone whom America would be "better off" without.

[The Grand Nudger]

The catholic is suddenly concerned with what makes sense?  

(you might want to read his posts again, btw)

[Anomalocaris]

"Innocent" people who negligently discharge firearms into toddlers, spouses, next door neighbors and themselves...... I'm willing to bet that Min probably would wish death on those people, lol.

I'd settle for them being put through a tumble in the sack with a rough man named Phil, personally.  Which is what would happen if we called them on their bullshit and charged them with the crime they've committed.

But Chuck wasn't talking only about people who have negligently discharged firearms into others. He was talking about all American people who own guns, in general, and that is what Min and I responded to. It is a small percentage of all people who own guns who have negligently gotten others killed, not all of them. And even if he was wishing death only on those who have been responsible for negligence, I still don't see how it's an appropriate sentiment to have. Especially if you're against the death penalty. 

It makes no sense to wish death on negligent gun owners who have discharged on people, and then to turn around and say you're against the death penalty for the most heinous of criminals. It makes even less sense to wish death on all American who own guns, which is what he did. 

Chuck's comment was that guns should not have a safety feature so that way they can go off and kill the owner, and that America would be a better place if all gun owners were shot and killed.


I don't care about guns one way or the other, but I do object to people talking about wanting a whole category of people to be killed. Having guns does not make someone a bad person. If they haven't done anything wrong, they are still innocent people. Being in the Air Force, we know a lot of fellow officers who own guns and like to go shooting. They are still innocent people. They are still good people who don't deserve to die. My husband's dad owns a few guns himself too. He doesn't use them for hunting animals, but he does like to go target shooting on occasion with his sons. He's a doctor who dedicates his life to helping people. He's an innocent man and not someone who any decent person should be wishing death upon, nor someone whom America would be "better off" without.

I grant your father in law special dispensation to install safety in his guns, just in case he wishes to leave his guns loaded and just sitting around. But that's only because of you.

[Edwardo Piet]

... which would be true if it were ever possible for belief or disbelief to be a choice.

It is always possible, indeed unavoidable, to chose what to believe.

Actually it's never possible to choose what to believe. You're either compelled and convinced or you're not. A belief is like a lever that gets pulled when reality (or what you think is reality, even if it's complete nonsense) hits.

You can influence what you believe to a certain extent by deliberately only looking for evidence that supports a certain belief you already hold, and not looking for anything that does: I.e. intentional confirmation bias. But once you see the evidence and you're convinced by it, it's too late. You're either compelled and convinced or you're not.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Because the followers of the gun religion on this forum thought that I was exaggerating when I said that no other country is so obsessed about a single subject as Americans are with guns, I decided to book mark each new thread that comes up. This list will include threads that get derailed, including this one. So far in the first half of December we have had:

Gun TV. It's about time!
I just threw up a little

... and now

Is America the greatest country (Derailed)

[Minimalist]

Most of those "accidents" are more properly called "negligence."  If you leave a loaded gun laying around and a kid picks it up and shoots himself or someone else that is not an "accident."  It is the predictable result of the gun owner being a fucking asshole.

But "accident" sounds so much better to the denizens of Gun Nut Nation.

Ok, so the comment about hoping they shoot themselves by negligence and die is legitimate then?

My comment was "gun nuts are never innocent." 

This is based on the reality that guns cannot load themselves.  Cannot leave themselves accessible to other people.  And cannot fire themselves.

At the heart of every gun "accident/negligence" case is a gun nut who thinks he is fucking wonderful because he has a fucking gun.

Fuck them.

[Minimalist]

BTW, there is another word that Gun Nuts don't like in addition to "negligence."  They also prefer "accident" to "suicide."

You get less grief from the Life Insurance company.

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]Being in the Air Force, we know a lot of fellow officers who own guns and like to go shooting. They are still innocent people. They are still good people who don't deserve to die.[...]

Ha! That's rich. I must remind you that according to your imaginary friend NOONE is innocent and EVERYONE deserves to die, including infants - in whatever gruesome way Jeezles sees fit - because a b*tch ate some fruit once. Your fabricated outrage is laughable. Stop it.

Sure - an idea that guns should be purposefully made defective is dumb, especially that retards seem to have little trouble hurting themselves and their own families with weapons in perfect working condition. But there's little use in getting your panties in a twist over a throwaway emotionally motivated comment.

And as far as "wishing for innocent people to die" - there's a website called "Darwin Awards", where we celebrate morons, who killed themselves through their own stupidity, thereby removing their defective genes from the gene-pool. They may be "innocent" for all intents and purposes and I'm sure their families suffer because of their deaths - still, the world is a better place, each time a stupid person stops being a problem for everyone around. That's just how mother nature (or - if you like - god) works - through natural selection...

http://www.darwinawards.com/