help me understand this OT and NT stuff

[popsthebuilder]

Well, I give you this much: after the snide, condescending trollery of members like Delicate, you are a breath of fresh air, Pops.

I don't know who your talking about. Suppose that isn't the point. Thank you humbly.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Whateverist]

I was talking favorably about you, pops. I don't seek out anything like Bahai for myself but I have no problem with you or anyone else doing so.

May I ask what your mission is here at AF, if you have one? I mean what would you like to get from your time here?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I find reading about religions fascinating, not sure why cause I think they do more harm than good, but anyway I was reading passages from the OT that say you can't do all this stuff and talked about killing babies, stoning children, killing nonbelievers.....

So I was talking to a Lutheran about all of this and as the conversation went on I just became more and more confused. So if the NT trumps the OT then why is the OT in the bible? I mean why have all that in there if you don't have to abide by it? You just ignore it because you know killing babies is wrong? But God told you to do it and it's the word of God right? He told me he thought that the 10 commandments are very important but they're in the OT. So I guess one of the commandments says not to kill but then god tells you all these reasons that you should kill people in the same OT.

I'm so confused I just had to stop the conversation because it was making my brain hurt. I like to understand others points of views but I can make any sense out of all this.

Maybe someone can explain this to me better. What is the difference between the OT and NT as far as what you should follow and what you shouldn't?  



-Sara0229

The whole purpose of the Bible and all other "holy books" is to indoctrinate people into complete belief and obedience without exception.  When the designated deity says to slaughter someone for a silly offense the believer is expected to believe and obey without a second thought.  The believer is not supposed to think for himself and question.  He is simply supposed to believe and obey.  Governments follow this same playbook and use it to control their herds of idiots as well.  People love to be told what to do and what to think.  They will usually follow anyone who acts like he knows what he's doing even if by doing so it costs them their lives.  

Even the Bible says that people are stupid shits who should know better than to do most of the things that the Bible tells them to do.

[robvalue]

This is the way I look at it, based in my experience. Not every theist is this way, but a substantial amount have shown this trend.

Most of the time, religion is a mirror. People accept the parts of their religious text that support how they want things to be, and find reasons why the rest of it doesn't apply. (The excuses are many and varied, and in my opinion entirely unconvincing.) So what they are left with is a reflection of themselves. They are then amazed how "all their morality comes from the bible/Quran/Jamie Oliver's cookery book". Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful people find reasons to dismiss the vile parts of their religion. Keep on doing it.

This couldn't more obvious than with the character of "Jesus". When I hear people describe him, it appears to be just an idealised version of themselves. It's what they aspire to be like. However, to end up with such a view of Jesus, you have to cherry pick as I described. For anyone who has actually read the NT and not just focused on the nice bits that they heard about and liked, you'll find out Jesus is far from perfect. He is also (in my opinion) sometimes crazy, immoral, incites violence and gives terrible advice. Personally I think he's an amalgamation of at least two characters, as he appears to have a split personality. If you mention any of this, just like if you bring up OT atrocities, it is often dismissed instantly with an excuse and then forgotten. Jesus also said the whole of the OT still applies, yes many Christians seem to think he said you can just forget most of the OT.

Religion doesn't do anything on its own, it's just a serious of oral myths, often focused on a book. People then make of it whatever they want. Depending on the level of indoctrination that they experience though, they may have little say in how they "interpret" it. For many people, breaking free of the myths and the interpetations of those myths jammed into their head as a child before they have learned how to think is extremely difficult. The mind is incredibly good at throwing up mental defences to any attempt to challenge its status quo, especially concerning long term beliefs. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, and I have to analyse my responses very carefully to make sure I'm using logic and not emotion.

Indoctrination is the saddest part, because it can warp the mirror I mentioned above. Someone who freely walks into religion will likely end up with a clear mirror. But someone who has had certain prejudices programmed into them may then end up with a clouded mirror, containing nasty things that they otherwise wouldn't have thought. This is one of the big problems with religion. Good people will do good things, religious or not. Bad people will do bad things. But religion can get good people to do bad things.

[Cyberman]

Honestly, a true theist follows both the old testament and the new testament,

Only as long as it's convenient. They will follow injunctions for men to take off their hats in church, but not against wearing ostentatious jewellery or reciting repetitive mantras in public. Homosexuality is sinful because icky, but bacon is okay because bacon. Psalms 14:1 because I get to call you a fool to your face and blame it on a book, but Matthew 5:22 means something completely different to what it says because it can be used against me and that's not fair.

[robvalue]

Oh yeah, I forgot. Jesus brought Hell with him, about the most evil concept imaginable. Kind of a black mark on his saintly record.

[Mudhammam]

Basically, the OT was God's revelation to the Jewish people, so most of it in terms of practical application is specific to their concerns. The NT is seen by Christians as God expanding his revelation to all people through the person of Christ, as told by his disciples within the first 100 years of the establishment of his Church. Christ is seen as the fulfillment of the Law, so that, as allegorized by the story of Jesus' transfiguration on the Mount of Olives, in the presence of Moses and Elijah (representing the Law and the Prophets, or the OT), the Law is no longer required for one to attain communion with God. It serves rather as a picture of the life and example that Christ came to embody in the flesh, which is now the Law for Christians.

[Heat]

There's nothing to understand about it.

The Religious will say the NT trumps the OT when it benefits their cause, they will bring up passages from the OT that contradict the NT but never mention the contradiction, if questioned about passages in the NT they will bring up the OT for an example to somehow convince you to disregard the immoral passage you brought up from the NT, and vice versa will also use examples from the NT to convince you to disregard immorality in the OT.

It's a fucking wish-washy time-wasting mess of religious woo-woo that is intended to serve a purpose but in reality the purpose it serves is impossible to coherently define as it's use is commonly followed by an incomprehensible word salad argument that proves a point that benefits them in the moment but ignores the thousand other points it's contradicting in the process.

[robvalue]

There is rather a sad irony that Christians are generally the only people who are unable to appreciate what the book really tells us. Although people of other faiths probably don't spend much time studying the bible objectively either.

That leaves atheists (and irreligious theists) to appreciate the bible... Doubly ironic

[brewer]

Kept the OT for easier conversion of the Jews.