Ammon Bundy, six others arrested

[CapnAwesome]

[...] wanted to expand the definition of terrorism to people who haven't committed any violence [...]

A bullshit claim.  Look up the definition of terrorism here. Look up the definition of violence here -- specifically, 1.2 in that link.

Yeah violence and intimidation. They hadn't committed any violence when you guys had labeled them terrorists weeks ago. It's really sketchy to say anybody who intimidates or threatens to intimidate someone is now a terrorist. Do you really believe that? You guys just can't see the forest for the trees. Both Hillary and Trump want to shut down terrorists websites, and now you think terrorists can be non violent groups who threaten violence. That's a license to restrict speech, a license to lock people up without their rights because now they are terrorists. We need to stop calling people terrorists. That's some serious Donald Trump shit right there. We need less of it, not more.

[Jenny A]

What do you mean "went in"?  They stopped two cars and arrested six people including the leaders.  One man pulled a gun and was shot. Bundy has since made a statement through his lawyer telling the rest of the occupiers to go home.

It's nice when people ignore all the rest of my post to focus on a went in, okay they sprang a trap, now I'd like any of you to respond to how this will just make more of these guys, exactly like it did before.

Your syntax makes it hard to figure out what you mean. I don't think this will make more of these guys if that's what you are asking. This is ridiculous stand off number two for the Bundys. If the hands off approach worked they would have stopped after round one.

[CapnAwesome]

Do you guys really want the government to be able to use their expanded powers to fight terrorists to be applied to any group that intimidates people??? I don't know how that is possibly good liberal thinking.

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's nice when people ignore all the rest of my post to focus on a went in, okay they sprang a trap, now I'd like any of you to respond to how this will just make more of these guys, exactly like it did before.

There will always be some of these guys. You know, guys who want something for nothing, who gripe about Big Government even as they rely on big government's loans to finance their ranches, guys who pretend to have served in Big Government's military only to be shown out as frauds.

Will this make more of them? I doubt it ... unless the n00bs have some cattle needing grazing lands. Then fer shure they'll line up at the "I'm a patriot" booth.

As for your misstatement of fact -- if you want your views to be considered credible, you'd best get your facts in order first. When you misstate a fact (either by mistake or intent), it gives the impression that you're more concerned about your opinion than the facts on the ground. If you don't like that, well, hey, it's a tough world, sonnyboy.

[SteelCurtain]

Except that people did celebrate on the first page, and on an earlier thread people literally called for the police to storm in and shoot everyone. I'm not putting words in anybodies mouths. What I'm shocked at is the total inconsistency in peoples values. I've seen the same people decry police brutality and overreaction, and then the very same people want the police to go in and kill people when those people are right wing. My morals are not so flexible, plus if you want less right wing radicals in this country going in (or stopping a car for the people who would like to nitpick two words rather then reply to a point) and shooting people is not the way to go.

Your responses to Bella and I were putting words into our mouths.

You are equivocating the seemingly endless barrage of police brutality--overwhelmingly biased against a single ethnic community--with the proper use of force against an armed enemy of the state? They themselves have described themselves as enemies of the US Government. They themselves (and specifically Finicum) have stated that they will not go without a gun fight.

Guess what? Black, white, hispanic, liberal, conservative---you pull an assault weapon on a Federal Agent, you're going to get shot. I don't celebrate it, but I will say it is deserved.

This was not a case of police brutality. These men were occupying federal property, costing the taxpayers money, they were fucking up protected habitats in a Wildlife Refuge, they were using government vehicles illegally, they were threatening violence and armed conflict. If you want to pretend this was a peaceful protest, then that's a delusion you can live in, I guess.

Also, Ammon Bundy released a statement through his lawyers telling all the rest of them to go home. And they are.

“To those remaining at the refuge, I love you. Let us take this fight from here. Please stand down. Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. … Please go home,” Ammon Bundy said in a statement through his attorney read to the media following a court hearing.

One protester who remained at the refuge following Bundy’s arrest on Tuesday told Reuters by phone that some of the protesters were leaving the refuge through checkpoints set up by authorities, but rejected the word “surrender.”

“I don’t know what surrendering looks like,” Jason Patrick said. “They’re walking through the checkpoint and going home. That’s what I’ve heard unless I’m being lied to.”

Patrick added: “It’s getting emptier over time, some people leaving, some people still there holding onto what they’re holding onto.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/ammon-bu...tand-down/

[Thumpalumpacus]

A bullshit claim.  Look up the definition of terrorism here. Look up the definition of violence here -- specifically, 1.2 in that link.

Yeah violence and intimidation. They hadn't committed any violence when you guys had labeled them terrorists weeks ago. It's really sketchy to say anybody who intimidates or threatens to intimidate someone is now a terrorist. Do you really believe that? You guys just can't see the forest for the trees. Both Hillary and Trump want to shut down terrorists websites, and now you think terrorists can be non violent groups who threaten violence. That's a license to restrict speech, a license to lock people up without their rights because now they are terrorists. We need to stop calling people terrorists.  That's some serious Donald Trump shit right there. We need less of it, not more.

You clearly didn't look up the term "violence". The legal definition of violence doesn't require the physical infliction of harm, nor does the definition of terrorism, legal or idiomatic, require that violence be perpetrated. Take, for instance, a hijacker. He points a gun at the pilot and tells him to fly to Cyprus so that he can hold the plane and its passengers hostage as leverage for a prisoner-release negotiation. No one is injured or killed. Are you really going to argue, right here and now, that that isn't terrorism?

Please, go on. Let me go get my popcorn -- this is gonna be good.

[Jenny A]

Do you guys really want the government to be able to use their expanded powers to fight terrorists to be applied to any group that intimidates people??? I don't know how that is possibly good liberal thinking.

I try not to liberal or conservative think. Biased thinking is not thinking.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Well it's nice to see that we've learned absolutely nothing from history. If people are concerned about the rise of right wing militant groups in the US, the last thing you should want is for the government to have gone in like Yahoos and shot a man to death. In the 90's, the last time these groups were very active, it was the result of deadly government raids that ended in the death of people. Rather then discourage them, it sets martyrs them and rallies more, stranger and more dangerous people to their ranks.

Tim McVey said that Ruby Ridge and Waco directly inspired his actions. Here we see the same thing repeating again. It wasn't until Oklamhoma city that we saw a massive withdrawal in the popularity and support of these groups. Now do we have to wait for another Oklahoma city? This just creates more wackos, not less and was the wrong thing to do. These guys were getting booed at public forums, people were against them, and they could easily have just been waited out, they weren't anywhere important, just a remote park in a remote part of Oregon. Instead the government goes in guns blazing and restarts a problem that we shouldn't have. You guys celebrating is short sited.

I would have used C130 gun ships against the insurrectionists.  No survivors.

[Iroscato]

Well it's nice to see that we've learned absolutely nothing from history. If people are concerned about the rise of right wing militant groups in the US, the last thing you should want is for the government to have gone in like Yahoos and shot a man to death. In the 90's, the last time these groups were very active, it was the result of deadly government raids that ended in the death of people. Rather then discourage them, it sets martyrs them and rallies more, stranger and more dangerous people to their ranks.

Tim McVey said that Ruby Ridge and Waco directly inspired his actions. Here we see the same thing repeating again. It wasn't until Oklamhoma city that we saw a massive withdrawal in the popularity and support of these groups. Now do we have to wait for another Oklahoma city? This just creates more wackos, not less and was the wrong thing to do. These guys were getting booed at public forums, people were against them, and they could easily have just been waited out, they weren't anywhere important, just a remote park in a remote part of Oregon. Instead the government goes in guns blazing and restarts a problem that we shouldn't have. You guys celebrating is short sited.

I would have used C130 gun ships against the insurrectionists.  No survivors.

Hammering home the point, as if it weren't already clear enough, that you are a piece of shit.

[SteelCurtain]

https://youtu.be/tuZQW28qFkQ?t=179
3:00 mark

"If they stop you from getting here, KILL THEM."